Creatives Like Us Podcast - Ep:41
Episode 41 of the podcast Creatives Like Us hosted by Angela Lyons – with guest Peju “The Spark” Abuchi
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A Poetic Odyssey with Peju 'The Spark' Abuchi
In this episode, poet and speaker Peju shares her journey of embracing poetry as a tool for healing, self-expression, and societal impact. She discusses the power of words, the influence of curiosity, and how creativity is transforming corporate and community spaces.
Connect with Peju:
LinkedIn: Peju “The Spark” Abuchi
Instagram: @powerful.poetic.presence
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Chapters
0:00
– Welcome & Meet Peju the Spark — Introducing poetic speaker and therapeutic wordsmith Peju Abuchi
4:03
– The Roots of Her Poetry — Pain, joy, curiosity and why creativity can't be outsourced to AI
15:45
– The Leap to Full-Time Poet — Taking the spark seriously in her mid-40s and performing internationally
22:07
– Books, Journaling & Healing — Her first book, her upcoming book for young women and why reflection is a necessity
44:31
– What's Next & Where to Find Her — Postcards, a voice-finding workshop and the future of Creatives Like Us events
Transcript
Angela Lyons (00:00:01)
⁓ Hello and welcome to Creatives Like Us, ⁓ a podcast where we open up conversations about what it really means to build a creative career when you're black or brown. ⁓ I'm your host, brand and marketing graphic designer, Angela Lyons. ⁓ In my guest episodes, I sit down with creatives who are out there doing the work, navigating the industries and proving that there's space for all of us because the more we share,
The more we see our stories out there and the more we see ourselves reflected and the more we realise we're not alone in this. ⁓ Okay then, are you ready? ⁓ Let's dive in to today's episode.
Angela Lyons (00:00:41)
Peju, welcome to Creatives Like Us. Thank you for joining me today on one of the ⁓ sunny, hottest days of the year, and you're looking gorgeous. Can you tell people who you are and what type of creatives you are?
Peju Abuchi (00:00:55)
Absolutely. Thank you, ⁓ Anj, for this wonderful opportunity to continue the relationship and conversation with creatives like us. I am Paige the Spark. I am a poetic speaker and a therapeutic wordsmith. Now, what is that? I feel like my mission is healing the world one stage at a time through the power of poetry infused with oratory.
Angela Lyons (00:01:21)
⁓ Beautiful. ⁓ I love that. What an introduction. ⁓ Gosh, you know, throughout this, somewhere in this episode, we're going to have to have a poem from you, okay? I'm just letting you know now. ⁓ I've had poets before on the show and they've just gone spontaneously giving me a poem, but I'm going to actually ask you to get one. ⁓ Do it. I know you've got one up your sleeve. ⁓ So tell me, how did you actually become a ⁓ What's the origin of your creativity?
Peju Abuchi (00:01:37)
Yeah.
Peju Abuchi (00:01:51)
Hmm, it's a great question. And sometimes I say about these journeys, if there was a full answer, then it would cease to be the mystery that it is. And I feel like poetry and being poetic is ⁓ mysterious at its core. But there are things that, you know, you can follow some of the breadcrumbs, and part of those breadcrumbs lead me back to a time in my life when I was a preteen exploring who I was. ⁓
Trying to figure out if my voice really mattered. I'm from a big family, a lot of loud voices. And I was quite shy as a child. And I feel like writing in journals became an invitation to be bold on paper. And it really helped me to hone the scale of creativity and creative writing and self-expression and how wonderful words are when you put them together, when you break them apart, when you put them back together.
In a different way when you assign them to do different things in a sentence. And I loved all of that. And I did really well in school, in English language, and composition and comprehension and creative writing. And I felt like I had a gift, but it was one of those things, it was like, it's just a thing in the background of my life. It's never the thing I can focus on. But focus on it, I am, ⁓ as I'm sure we will get to in the conversation, when
It became apparent that there was more to this than just keeping it as a side hustle. So for me, poetry has become a reinvitation back to who I truly am. And that person emerged when I was a young girl. But I didn't quite know her or respect all of who she was. But now she's definitely taken center stage in my life.
Angela Lyons (00:03:37)
That is amazing. ⁓ And you mentioned school and I'd like to touch on that because I always think to become a poet you've got to have all the right words. Is it the right words that you have or is it just something that comes to heart or something that you've picked up from your history or heritage? ⁓ What influences your poetry?
Peju Abuchi (00:04:03)
What influences my poetry is a mixture of pain and joy, and I think all of that is underpinned by curiosity. So I don't know if you also grew up in a culture where they would say, Curiosity killed the cat. ⁓ Try to douse the curiosity of young people, like, hey, what are you doing? Mind your own business. Stop looking there. Stop trying to figure this out. Just stay in your lane. And I've grown up to really see that curiosity is is my superpower. And curiosity is a
true connector of people and places and situations. And I would say underpinning my poetry's curiosity, I am curious about the world. I'm curious about people. And I notice, I'm somebody who loves to observe. And growing up, I would look around and wonder, why is there so much poverty? And I would ⁓ write about it. I would create poetry about it. Because there were times when I just thought, I don't even know who to take these conversations or questions to, but my power
Poetry books always invited me back on this ⁓ on the pages to ask, to question, to challenge, to wail, to ⁓ to be ecstatic, to all of it, all of it was welcome. And ⁓ I think that has been a journey that has continued. It's the creativity merged with curiosity that really invites me to notice, to question, to ask, and to write. ⁓
Angela Lyons (00:05:14)
Yeah ⁓
Peju Abuchi (00:05:31)
Things are
Angela Lyons (00:05:32)
Yeah, in your day to day, I know you are a poet and I know you also run workshops where you help ⁓ businesses and you facilitate ⁓ certain events. Is there anything where your poetry is tied into that? Always? ⁓ Can you give some examples? That'd be great. ⁓
Peju Abuchi (00:05:48)
Always
Peju Abuchi (00:05:53)
It's a USB. ⁓ when I'm invited to speak, to deliver a keynote, there's always this cheeky sense of are you gonna you're gonna perform as well? And I always there's always something poetic that frames ⁓ or emerges at the start or closes off at the end. ⁓ and I think poetry for me, s I'll give you an example. I was speaking at an event on Friday last week.
Angela Lyons (00:05:55)
The USB, yeah. ⁓
Peju Abuchi (00:06:23)
A women's event, ⁓ women in business and management. And the theme was on meaningful legacy. I did speak about legacy, and what I'm realizing about legacy that a lot of people need to understand is we think legacy is that thing that people say about me when I'm gone. ⁓ And I feel really deeply that legacies today. Part of what we're doing now is I'm getting a sense of your legacy, Anj, and you're getting a sense of my legacy in real time.
This today, the here and the now. And so I did this opening about legacy and talking about the legacy of this platform that I was speaking on. They're celebrating 25 years. And it was very much, am I talking about this platform or ladies, am I talking about you? Because as you're sitting here listening to me, as you're talking and having lunch with different women, they are experiencing your legacy. What legacy are you putting out?
Angela Lyons (00:07:17)
Amazing. ⁓
Peju Abuchi (00:07:18)
And then after I'd done that intro, I did this performance of leadership, legacy, and limitation as a dance. As a dance. So I invite them to this dance floor and I love the surprise element where people are like, a dance.
Angela Lyons (00:07:25)
As a dance.
Angela Lyons (00:07:32)
⁓ You know what, sometimes when I go to events and they tell people to get up and dance, ⁓ I feel like, ⁓ I love dancing, don't get me wrong, but when it's like a business networking or like an event, I get like cringe, I'm like, I've got to get up and dance. No, leave me alone.
Peju Abuchi (00:07:48)
I didn't invite them to die.
Angela Lyons (00:07:49)
⁓ You didn't? ⁓ phew. That's hilarious. So you got bit of an insight of me. So people listening, right? If there's an event, don't ask me to dance. ⁓
Peju Abuchi (00:07:52)
No, I didn't invite anyone to
Peju Abuchi (00:07:58)
⁓ I danced as I struggled leadership and legacy on stage. So that's where poetry came in. And then another event, an e-assessment conference, which was a couple of weeks back. I g I get given a title and there's always poetry woven in. And I think what people say to me at the end is, I didn't see that coming. And I'm like, I like that you were surprised and you were serenaded.
Angela Lyons (00:08:05)
Nice.
Peju Abuchi (00:08:25)
But you also could hear that I'm speaking truth to power.
Angela Lyons (00:08:28)
Yes, yes, yes, yes. I remember with Creatives Like Us, ⁓ when we had our first event last year in February and you opened up the floor, you opened up the evening with a poem ⁓ and that was really special. I got goosebumps because we'd created an event for, you know, black creatives to get together and ⁓ we made sure that it was, you know, there was something for everybody there and people came and spoke to you afterwards didn't they? And I think they even bought your book and it was just like, you know, all of that. It's just like, we just wanted to create that connection of people.
⁓ Your poetry brought all of us together present in the room right at the beginning and you set the tone for the evening. So it's great. Thank you again for that. Thank you. ⁓
Peju Abuchi (00:09:08)
Thank you so much. I really believe creatives ⁓ are having a time and a season that is ⁓ ripe for them. ⁓ I really feel like the corporate sector, which I would depict as the big sister, has always looked down on little brother creativity and said, nah, go and do your fun thing over there. We're doing serious things here. And all of a sudden, big sister corporate is looking back at little brother creativity and saying,
We need you.
Angela Lyons (00:09:40)
Yeah, but do you not think, just so I don't interrupt you, but do you not think that's because of the human touch and the human element in it? ⁓
Peju Abuchi (00:09:47)
Absolutely. And corporate settings are becoming a bit more stifling, a bit more suffocating. ⁓ Now we're being invited as creatives to come and come and say something. Come and say the same thing but in a different way. Come and perform a poem. Come and bring your dance, you know, what you do. Come and talk about your culture. Come and cook. You know. Because creativity belongs everywhere.
Angela Lyons (00:10:09)
Yeah, yeah. ⁓
Yeah, yeah. Actually going on to that because I think that I've noticed a lot of people using, I don't know what you feel about AI at the moment as an AI, ⁓ or people using that saying that that's creative. ⁓ I just think that is, ⁓ but humans have fed that machine. ⁓ I don't know what your take on it is.
Peju Abuchi (00:10:31)
I refer to Chimamanda Adichi, who is an incredible Nigerian author who wrote Purple Hibiscus and Half of a Yellow Sun. She's amazing. And I watched a clip of her talking about AI. And she said something ⁓ like: we are giving away our imagination ⁓ when all we do creatively is, let me just go to, let me just go to Chat GPT, let me just go to Claude.
Angela Lyons (00:10:39)
Peacefully arc,
Peju Abuchi (00:10:57)
Even this morning I was responding to a call out for speakers for an event at a girls' school close to where I live. And as I started writing, I was like, ⁓ mm, let me just put all of these thoughts into Chat GPT and see what it comes up with. And I sat there and I was like, you're not gonna do that. Because before Chad GPT, you did all of this and you got work. People responded and were like, we love how you speak, how you express yourself. Do not give your imagination and creativity away.
Now, AI enhances. I feel like it does enhance. Sometimes I put in my bio and I say, I can you make it a creative bio? Can you make it more of a media focused bio? It does its magic. It's great. But I feel like AI is more to enhance what is already within us as opposed to it being the starting point. When everything ⁓ when everything at the starting point is AI, we will lose so much of
Angela Lyons (00:11:48)
I'm not.
Yeah.
Peju Abuchi (00:11:57)
That you know that restless creaties where you're restless for a project and you're rest through a brief and that fuels you, that grows you, that pushes you forward. We can't give that away.
Angela Lyons (00:12:09)
Yeah, cannot, cannot. And you're so interested about what you said about the, when you're writing things. Because again, I had fallen into that habit of ⁓ going, let me respond to this email, and then pressing a button on my Gmail and it auto responds for me. And I was like, my God, this is not me. But then it started to sound like me. And I'm like, no, no, no, I don't want this to sound like it to do this either. Another interesting point actually, when it comes back to work is I listened to podcast recently and ⁓
she was replying to a post on LinkedIn. ⁓ she said she noticed that a lot of the replies that was a call out for work and a lot of the replies were all AI bots, but she'd written it in her own tone, in her own voice. And they got back to her and she was like being really personal, being her quirky self and they got back to her. And it was just like that just so telling that even as you said, AI is just the tool, but it can't be the creative ⁓ tool, you know, take our brain. ⁓
Peju Abuchi (00:13:06)
I think, ⁓ Ange, also what it does is we then forget how deeply powerful we are as human beings. And we give all this ⁓ What AI, whoa, it's amazing. And I think, but humans created them and prompted them. And so it the the minds behind these AI tools are amazing. And they're huh and what's within them to a certain extent is also within us. How do we keep honing what is within us?
So we're even more exceptional as human beings and not giving it all away.
Angela Lyons (00:13:40)
Yeah, we've got to give it away. ⁓ Exactly. ⁓ Exactly that. Exactly that. ⁓ Thank you, Paige. Thank you for your insights there. I love that. ⁓ I always ask people, I think you touched on it before about how you got into poetry, but was there anyone that inspired you? I call it the catalyst connection. Was there anyone who said, just go for this, ⁓ like maybe of a project that you've been working on, maybe your book, and someone said, just go for it. ⁓ have you always been just like, I'm going to do it anyway? ⁓ Or is it, ⁓ no? ⁓
So I just wanted to know about some people that have inspired you or what the situation was because I think, you know, when people list the podcasts, it's always touching to hear how ⁓ people are inspired by others. Yeah. think before we came on the call, we were talking about ⁓ somebody that who I've met recently ⁓ and how someone inspired her and like, you know, and it's just a thing that I just think that human connection again, just to... Powerful. Yeah. ⁓
Peju Abuchi (00:14:20)
Yes indeed.
Peju Abuchi (00:14:35)
Powerful. ⁓ I don't know if you watch or your audience watch Britain's Got Talent. I don't watch it. I don't watch it.
Angela Lyons (00:14:42)
I know of it, I used to watch it years ago, now I just think, what is this? ⁓
Peju Abuchi (00:14:46)
In this last ⁓ season or series, yeah there was a poet who got to the finals. Was ⁓ a wonderful man, ⁓ a father or a husband who I heard only his last he didn't go on to win or anything, but I heard his last, his final piece. And it was beautiful. It was about his father and and I just thought, ⁓ look at poetry taking center stage on a platform like Britain's Got Talent.
Angela Lyons (00:14:52)
No way. ⁓
Angela Lyons (00:14:58)
Whoa!
Peju Abuchi (00:15:16)
Poetry is powerful. Poetry is mysterious. It is such a gift. But a lot of people have relegated it for far too long into that bracket of it's a side hustle. It's a side hustle. It's what you do on the side. It's what you do for fun. It's what you do as a as a gift for family and friends. And yet, three years ago, after I had poured a lot of my heart and soul into raising three children.
Angela Lyons (00:15:28)
Yeah.
Peju Abuchi (00:15:45)
Into my marriage, and my youngest started secondary school. I heard this knock on the door of my heart saying, Pidgey, what makes your soul sing? And I was in my mid-40s and I was scared. And I thought, I'm doing really well. I'm an educator. I'm running my business. I have clients, it's all good. And yet I got this sense from within me that I was being invited to use my voice in a bigger way, to use my words in a bigger way.
And I had to own up to if I'm not even gonna give myself permission to see if this could be a full-time thing. I'm in my mid-40s, when am I? If not now, when? When? ⁓ And I just decided, you know what, with baited breath and fear in my heart, okay, let me see if there is something in this. Because for a long time while I was raising my kids, people would send me messages and say, Can you speak at our leaders' event? Can you write something for Women's Day? Can you write a
A poem for my father's birthday. Can you write something and perform at our wedding? And it was that thing that they would give me feedback, like it was great, it was amazing, it resonated with the audience, and I would pack it away nicely afterwards, put it back on the shelf and get back to work. ⁓ But three years ago, I felt like, Pejou, you need to give this so much more than you're giving it now because you never know where it's going to go.
Angela Lyons (00:17:11)
Yeah.
Peju Abuchi (00:17:12)
And I did, and three years on I'm here, I'm back with you. I mean we've connected the w ⁓ women have connected with the men, the
Angela Lyons (00:17:20)
people. Yeah. All their organizations. Look at that.
Peju Abuchi (00:17:23)
But the clubs have performed in, I'm like ⁓ wow.
Angela Lyons (00:17:27)
Countries, wow. ⁓ Tell me some countries you've been to. Tell where you've been.
Peju Abuchi (00:17:31)
So two months ago, I was in Malta performing an international group of women from different parts of the world. ⁓ It was over a hundred women in the audience. It was powerful. And I did this again, I like to call them spoken word experiences. When people say, Can you perform a poem? I'm like, I don't perform poetry. I invite you into a spoken word experience. And on the stage in Malta, I did something called the women who rise together. And you really embodied. ⁓
Angela Lyons (00:17:37)
⁓ That's so cool.
Peju Abuchi (00:18:00)
We rose together as women and ⁓ roared, you know, together as women. So that Malta was recently ⁓ two years ago, the Hague Portugal, Porto in Portugal. ⁓ last week or a week and a half ago, we were in Budapest. My husband was working there and I was working on my second book, which was great. Had the opportunity to do that. Maybe two years ago, we were in Dubai.
Angela Lyons (00:18:29)
Wow, so you've been international. International speaker, Peju. Can I put that in your bio? That's ⁓ so cool. I didn't know all this about you. ⁓
Peju Abuchi (00:18:36)
I don't know.
Peju Abuchi (00:18:43)
It would never have come to be if I had not said yes. You see what I mean? Three years ago, there was an invitation that I don't believe would have stayed in my lap for too long. The time would have gone. I would have changed. The season would have changed. What was happening would have changed. And I really feel like it was a crucial time of I'm so scared, but I must do this.
Angela Lyons (00:18:47)
Yeah, it's true.
Angela Lyons (00:19:08)
⁓ Amazing. ⁓ You mentioned you're writing, ⁓ actually there was a few things you mentioned that I wanted to pick up on, ⁓ but you mentioned future projects, so you're currently writing your second book. Can you tell us about your first maybe? And then also tell us about your second. ⁓ And as we're here, I can see on your shelf that you have your poetry book, that your first book. ⁓ So maybe you can read from there or something that you already, something that comes from the heart, whatever you feel like. That'd be amazing if you don't mind. ⁓
So tell me about your first book and ⁓ your second book coming up. Please.
Peju Abuchi (00:19:42)
The first book is called A Poetic Odyssey of Proclamations. And when people ask me, ⁓ tell us what was that spark that enabled you to publish a book, I say it wasn't a spark, it was pain. And the pain that led to publishing this book was having done so much work with young people when I was an educator, running my own business and preparing young people for big exams and for not so big exams and for writing dissertations in university. I was ⁓ stunned.
By the level of negativity in their words about themselves. ⁓ Miss, I can't do this. I'm too ⁓ stupid. Miss, I'm not like this person. I'll never do it. I can't. I have no value. Just I I I was stunned because I grew up in a society in Nigeria where we were told, your words are powerful, so be careful what you say. And yet there were these people, young people, spewing out such negativity about them.
Angela Lyons (00:20:38)
Can I ask, were you in the UK at this time when you education?
Peju Abuchi (00:20:42)
Yes, now I was in the UK, but when I heard these words, I was growing up in Nigeria. And then working with women as well in parallel to ⁓ educating young people, the women as well that I worked with, that I mentored, that I coached, super negative the way they looked, the weights they carried or didn't carry, their hair, their relationships, their partners, their marriages, their life, their future. And I had an aha moment where I thought.
Realistically, your life is not going to change overnight. But if you begin to shift the way you talk about your life, things will change. Things will begin to reshape. So the first book, A Poetic Odyssey of Proclamations, is all about using ⁓ language, your words, to reshape your reality with wisdom and hope and kindness.
Angela Lyons (00:21:36)
⁓ Positive words.
Peju Abuchi (00:21:39)
Positive words about yourself, about your community, about others. And when you ⁓ send out positive words, ⁓ most often positivity returns. ⁓
Angela Lyons (00:21:48)
It's true. I mean, ⁓ people call it karma. ⁓ You know, there's other words for it. But ⁓ it's something that, you know, put good out in the world, good will come back to you. Put bad out in the world. Not ⁓ that I'm the person to ⁓ put that upon people, but we know that, you know, good begets good.
Peju Abuchi (00:22:07)
Absolutely. And again, the book also has pages where you can journal. Because again, what I'm realizing and what I realized when I started to make the pivot was we want quick fixes. So even for me when I was going through coaching to rebrand myself, it was kind of like, give me the three points, the three steps, let me get on with it. And I'm glad they didn't. I had to wrestle. Again, it's that wrestling that you do with your inner self, with your inner mind.
With your inner person, with your inner thoughts, that really begins to birth your new reality. So inviting my readers to journal is me saying, ⁓ My words changed my life. Let your words change your life. You journal, you start reshaping and testing with new language how you want to show up in this world. So that's the first book. And then the second book ⁓ is a special book for young women. So I feel like I've been invited to a lot of
stages and spaces to speak to female founders, female entrepreneurs, women flourishing in leadership. And now I want to backtrack and speak to the young girls who become these women.
Angela Lyons (00:23:20)
Wow. Get them early. ⁓
Peju Abuchi (00:23:23)
What do they need to hear about their identity, about their beauty, about their vision, about the world we live in, about true leadership, about self-pity, about mental health, about social media? I want to really write and speak to ⁓ what is the world these girls quite a complicated world, these young girls and young women are navigating. I want to give them language and
opportunities to see things differently through a creative lens. So that is the next book that I'm working on.
Angela Lyons (00:24:00)
That would be amazing. ⁓ It would be amazing if you had a book launch and had some of the women read some of the poem. It amazing. Thank you. Just giving you little idea there. ⁓ Might this be a nice time to read a poem from your book? ⁓ Do you want to it at the end or would you like to do it now? Do it now. ⁓
Peju Abuchi (00:24:05)
Yes, indeed.
Peju Abuchi (00:24:11)
Yeah.
Peju Abuchi (00:24:18)
Do it now. Let's do it now. So I'm reading from the first book, and there's a poem there that I really love, and it's all about self-love. And I'm reading about self-love because I feel like so often ⁓ we ⁓ learn very early the power of loving other people. We learn to love our caregivers, we learn to love our parents, we learn to love our carers, our grandparents, our siblings.
We learn to love our neighbor, we learn to love our friends, and there's not enough input into the joy, the need, the power of loving ourselves. And so I wrote self-love in my book, and a prelude to that is in your shame, proclaim self-love. And I wanted that juxtaposition of shame and self-love because there's so many of us who struggle with shame.
And we've just normalized it. Shame has become this thing on our shoulder that's always with us and it's always gonna be there. And no, it doesn't have to be there. When we fail and when we fall, self-love tells us we can flourish again. And shame just keeps us down. So I wanted to speak to that shame through self-love. ⁓ And I've written this self-love. How do I love?
Me. Let me count the ways. Not only on good days when I feel the sun's rays, I long to gaze at my current phase and express self-love with a powerful phrase. ⁓ I am a beautiful blaze. This is my current craze as I navigate life's maze. ⁓ Watch me dazzle. ⁓
And days I will amaze. My glorious reflection says ⁓ that ⁓ I love me in all ways, till the end of my days, even as my hair glows with grey.
Angela Lyons (00:26:34)
Wow. Love it. Thank you. me goosebumps. ⁓ Thank you so much. ⁓ And I love the delivery. Thank you. You are amazing, Keisha. You're so amazing. So full of talent. I'm so glad you're on my podcast. Thank you so much. And I hope ⁓ the listeners are listening and saying that this is amazing. You're inspired them maybe to start some poetry because ⁓ that's another thing because sometimes you mentioned it's about the starting just
And you mentioned journaling. Do you think that if someone wants to start poetry, where would the ⁓ best place to start be?
Peju Abuchi (00:27:09)
That's a good question. Journaling now has become a tool that a lot of creatives are taking into the marketplace for leaders. How do you pause? How do you capture your thoughts before you vomit all over your people? How do you observe and take notes? And I really believe, I say this often: reflection is not a luxury, it is a necessity. ⁓
Angela Lyons (00:27:34)
I would
Peju Abuchi (00:27:35)
Too many of us and a lot of young people who are watching us are not reflecting enough. We're going, it's like, okay, next thing, next thing, okay.
Angela Lyons (00:27:44)
⁓ Quick, quick, quick, quick, quick, quick, ⁓
Peju Abuchi (00:27:48)
⁓ And then how do you look back and give thanks? How do you look back and celebrate how you've grown? How do you look back and learn from mistakes? How do you look back and edit? If I did this differently, this would be the outcome, right? ⁓ So even after I performed on Friday, I came home and there was a moment where I was like, ⁓ why did I not remember to do this? I could have done this. And I just thought, that's.
Angela Lyons (00:28:03)
⁓ huh.
Peju Abuchi (00:28:16)
A gift for my next performance. And I wrote it down in my journal. So I would say ⁓ journaling, even just as a ⁓ wellness practice of getting your thoughts down on paper, is crucial. And then I would invite readers who are thinking of writing more poetry or becoming more creative, just start playing with words, even making sense of the world. The world seems a little bit more volatile.
A little bit more complicated. And we just sit with these things. We sit with so much trauma that we're sensing in the world. And we don't get better. And sometimes we feel so unwell because we don't put it anywhere else. Writing really frees you. It gets the words out of your system. You see them on paper. And sometimes when you see them on paper, they invite you to dialogue. But they're not cramping your mind. They're not.
Crowding your mind, it's not filling your belly with weight and just ⁓ negativity and ⁓ whatever trauma that these situations can fill us with, then you feel like you're able to dialogue with these words, with these situations, with these difficulties and challenges as a separate entity, no longer lodged in your system, but as a separate entity. So I would encourage everyone to get into the habit of writing.
Angela Lyons (00:29:44)
And you don't have to have no fancy book or anything like that. It's just literally pick up. I mean, I love fancy notebooks to honest with you. ⁓ And I love a nice pen. ⁓ My friend, Karen, gave me a pen and it's such a beautiful pen. So simple, but it's a lovely pen to help in. ⁓ I love writing with it and I put my thoughts down and you know, it's just sometimes get something if you want to do it. If you do do generally, I also say do something that you feel like you want to enjoy that pick up a nice pen, ⁓ a nice notebook, but you can start anywhere and just start.
Peju Abuchi (00:30:12)
Just exactly, just start. And sometimes we feel we need so much to start with. And when people ask me about the root of the name Pidgey, the spark, what I say is a lot of people feel like, no, I need a fire before I can start anything exciting or anything transformational, anything that's gonna change the world. I'm waiting for the fire. And I'm like, you only need a spark.
Angela Lyons (00:30:33)
You only need that spark. ⁓ It's true. ⁓ Yeah. ⁓ Yeah, 100%. It's true, you know. It's true. Love that. I love your name, Paisley the Spark. ⁓ Thank you. ⁓ I was going to say, I know we're talking about your poetry and also, but you also, as you mentioned, you go and speak and just out of interest, how do you feel when you get up on stage? Do you feel like, do you feel nerves or do you feel like...
I'm ready for this or do you have what you want to say prepared? Do you use slides? Is there any props you use or just, just yeah, give us a bit of an insight. That'd be great.
Peju Abuchi (00:31:14)
It depends on the invitation, it depends on the stage, but it's always about preparation. When I come off stage, some people are like, my gosh, how did you do that? That's amazing. I'm like, I've done it ten times in front of the mirror. ⁓
Angela Lyons (00:31:21)
Yeah.
Angela Lyons (00:31:30)
Yeah, it's true. Yeah. ⁓
Peju Abuchi (00:31:33)
Three times in the shower. ⁓ I've done two times walking to the station. I've sat in the train and I've done it over and over again. Doing it in front of my husband, he's giving me feedback. My preparation is my power. I don't take it for granted where I get up on stage. If I've been invited, I have to do the work behind what I need to talk about. So it depends on the stage. I always do the preparation and I always feel the butterflies. ⁓ Always. ⁓
I like it because I feel like the butterflies are telling me, You're taking this seriously. ⁓ You've not arrived. It's a different brief. It's a different audience. It's a different poem. And I like that. And I tend not to eat before I perform. ⁓
Angela Lyons (00:32:09)
Yeah. ⁓
Angela Lyons (00:32:20)
⁓ Yeah, same here actually. Even doing podcasts, I feel quite, ⁓ because it's a bit of energy and I kind of get nervous energy. So I'll eat afterwards and I'll drink, know, have something proper to eat afterwards. ⁓
Peju Abuchi (00:32:32)
So water, I drink a lot of water. Now in menopause, I'm also developing dry mouth, which I didn't ⁓ sipping water, I'm drinking water. But I've also come to a point in this part of my journey as a performance poet where the nerves are not necessarily about can I deliver? The nerves are now: who is this for? ⁓ Who in the audience needed to hear?
Angela Lyons (00:32:38)
Yeah, yeah. ⁓
Angela Lyons (00:32:57)
But. ⁓
Peju Abuchi (00:33:02)
exactly what I just deposited in their spirit or soul or mind. I want to meet that person. So it's it's now different. And yeah, I'm I'm excited about this this part of the journey.
Angela Lyons (00:33:10)
Yeah. ⁓
Angela Lyons (00:33:14)
Lovely, ⁓ lovely. ⁓ So I'm going to ask, I know we've got this book in the future, is there anything else in the future that's coming up that you'd like to share with us?
Peju Abuchi (00:33:23)
So yes, of course. So I am also starting ⁓ a range of postcards. You know this? Yes.
Angela Lyons (00:33:29)
⁓ amazing. ⁓ I'm actually helping Tasha with her postcards. ⁓ I'm helping designing them, so we'll have a chat about that afterwards. ⁓
Peju Abuchi (00:33:39)
⁓ So I'm ⁓ when I do some of my performances, or even I write some of my poems, I think, this line is crucial and really resonates. So as opposed to writing a book of poems, I think why don't you write ⁓ bold quotes that can go on postcards that people can just share with other people? So that's something that I'm keen to do over the summer, as well as writing the second book. And then
I'm also realizing that I can't be everywhere at the same time. And part of the work that I do as I build this brand is I am the brand, my voice is the brand, my words are the brand. How do I leverage my lack of being able to be everywhere at the same time, doing everything all the time? It's not sustainable. And so what I would love to do is to do something online akin to a workshop of helping people to find.
their voice and to go on a journey of using their words as a force for good.
Angela Lyons (00:34:42)
Yeah, ⁓ that's possible, 100 % possible because you know the world we live in today and you could reach so many people, global audience in that, ⁓ so you could easily do that without having to travel. ⁓ 100 % you could do that.
Peju Abuchi (00:34:53)
Well, exactly.
Peju Abuchi (00:34:58)
So those things are coming up. Yeah. And I'm excited. I think ⁓ breaking into the corporate sector was brilliant and it was great. ⁓ I also love opportunities to speak to mothers and women and ⁓ I I just feel like there is something of joy in those spaces. There's something of a hunger.
Angela Lyons (00:35:14)
Yeah, young ladies, yeah.
Peju Abuchi (00:35:25)
For a new language of influence, for new expressions of what what is it we are inviting women and young girls to be in this new space where we're like, yay, the feminist movement, yay, yay, yay, we're empowering women and girls, and we can say all those things if we don't prepare them well.
Angela Lyons (00:35:46)
there's a gap there. ⁓ I'm sure you will explore that, Peja. ⁓ I think you'll do it well. you've got, you know, you've had, ⁓ you've got the, what's the word they call it? You've got the, you've got the props that back you up, you know, you've got all the, ⁓ you've been working at it for years. So what's to stop you? What's to stop from helping? Especially, ⁓ especially as you said, the young ladies and you know, ⁓ young men, know, there are a generation that needs adult guidance at the moment. I don't know if you heard, ⁓ I'm just on a side note today. ⁓
I heard ⁓ it's become law that they're banning mobile phones at school. ⁓ I just thought, ⁓ Patrice just put her thumbs up, double thumbs up. ⁓ And I just think, and then I read another thing this week. So I know we're not, I'm not talking AI or tech because I know we need it in life and ⁓ at the moment. But I also read where two year olds are staring at screens ⁓ as a form of like entertainment. And now they've realized that they've done studies that the two year olds ⁓ from babies to two, that it's interfering with their development. I'm like,
And they're we could have told you that. ⁓ You don't need a scientist to tell you that. ⁓ Mother's could have told you that, friends, parents could have told you that. And it's just, and I get it sometimes I do it to keep children quiet. And I was, you know, I even speaking to my daughter about it and she said something like, ⁓ I think you gave me like some pasta shells, mum, to play with or some books. ⁓ yeah. And I was like, yeah, and CPBC octanals, do you remember? ⁓ know, just like the, I was like, do you remember the octanals and the books I used to give you? ⁓
⁓ And was ⁓ just amazing that they're giving babies iPads and iPhones and sitting in a bug. Anyway, I'm not knocking that at all because that's what it's about. But what I was trying to get at is that I think some of this tech might be destroying some of the creativity and also ⁓ our mindset on how we see things in the world and not everything is polished and ⁓ brilliant as we see on a screen.
So true. And I think that's another thing that we could talk to young ladies and young women about.
Peju Abuchi (00:37:48)
Absolutely. I I think, you know, we talk about the ban of mobile phones in secondary schools and we talk about the impact of screens on young people. And I feel like so quickly we get a response from policy makers and leaders in different organizations, institutions, government about how we need to protect the child, how we need to liberate the child, how we need to caution the child, how we need to empower the child. And I look at it from
Be be beyond this child, behind this child are caregivers. For a lot of these children, behind them is a father and a mother. Now sometimes they're brought up in single-parent homes. ⁓ Notwithstanding, behind these children is an adult, is a parent who doesn't feel supported, who doesn't feel seen, who doesn't feel heard, who feels isolated, overwhelmed.
Anxious, ⁓ maybe put down or judged. And a reason that my husband and I started our podcast, which, you know, you can all always look up, is it's called The Jedi and the Spark Show. We started that podcast so we could say to parents, we could say to the adults in the family dynamic, we see you. And what we're doing is often a thankless task, but it is a triumphant task to be done. We celebrate and champion you.
Because you're important you're important in this dynamic. But nobody seems to be talking about the parents except in a way we're dissing them, we're judging them. Like for children to flourish, hello. Parents need to flourish. Hello. ⁓ Marriages need to flourish. Hello. Families need to flourish. Can we ⁓ look after, put our arms around the whole ecosystem and make sure each part is getting what it needs so we can all flourish. ⁓
Angela Lyons (00:39:24)
Yeah. ⁓
Angela Lyons (00:39:43)
⁓ That's true. ⁓ Is there anything that you would like to ask me or anything that you feel like creatives like us, the audience might want to hear or is there anything?
Peju Abuchi (00:39:55)
I love that. I love that angle. You turn turning the script back on. ⁓ I'm curious about the vision. What was the impetus that got you to want to do a podcast for creatives firstly? And then where's the where's it going?
Angela Lyons (00:40:00)
Yeah. ⁓
Angela Lyons (00:40:12)
⁓ Interesting. ⁓ Because I've been doing the podcast now, ⁓ we're currently in, coming up to the end of June, 2026. And I've been doing the podcast since January, 2025. ⁓ And it's been, you know, I've tried to keep it consistent, because it's just me by myself. ⁓ And the reason I started was because I wanted to, I don't know about you, but I listened to a lot of podcasts. ⁓ And I
Every time I open up my app, ⁓ I was just seeing the same faces and nobody of color. ⁓ And I also was thinking about, I've been thinking about it for a while, talking to creatives in the industry because I hardly ever see them when I go out, when I go in the workplace. So was more so when I was, you know, working at agencies and being out and about in the offices. ⁓ And also another reason was a student, ⁓ a friend of mine, ⁓ she's a student, she's black.
and she was trying to decide what design course to go on and she was listening, she was trying to find some podcasts to get some advice ⁓ and she said she didn't find any black podcasters in design. ⁓ So I said, well, how do know what, funny enough, I've been thinking about starting a podcast. So she was like, you should do it then. And I was like, you know what, maybe I should. ⁓ So that was kind of the main reason. ⁓
Peju Abuchi (00:41:30)
Awesome.
Angela Lyons (00:41:36)
It's been great because I've spoken to a lot of guests. I've spoken to lot of creatives in different, ⁓ as I said, I've spoken to poets. ⁓ Actually, you're my third poet so far, I think. ⁓ I've spoken to writers, ⁓ designers, ⁓ illustrators, ⁓ coaches, painters, ⁓ people in marketing. So it's been a nice mix of creative industries as such because when you say creatives, people think, ⁓ you paint or you draw or you're a fashion designer.
But creativity, you know, comes from all industries. And as you said, even like from the corporates, we still have to be creative around that. ⁓ So I did a few solo episodes too around design and branding. ⁓ I've also, but my majority of the podcasts ⁓ is around guests ⁓ and the future ⁓ coming up to the ends of season three. So you're part of my season three. ⁓ thank you, thank you. And ⁓ I'll pick it up again later on in the year to start season four.
But I have been like debating this too, because I was like, do I want to continue? I continue? ⁓ So, because it's, you know, it's quite tricky. I'm now by myself doing ⁓ it. ⁓ So, ⁓ that's one of the reasons why I ⁓ was doubting if I should continue with it. ⁓ I had, you know, lots of people say that, you know, I've been to events and people say, I love your podcast. Or I heard something on your podcast that really made me think, I went and checked out that person and they really helped me. And I was just like,
my God, this is why I do it. ⁓ And then that kind of spurs me up again and get, my chest goes all high again and I rave taller again and I go, okay, I'm gonna continue. ⁓
Peju Abuchi (00:43:15)
billiards. ⁓ And and Angie, what does it do for you?
Angela Lyons (00:43:19)
What does it do for me? I love talking with people and that's what it does for me. I love helping other people. yeah. mean, financially it'd be great if people like, ⁓ heard me off the back of it and my marketing and you know, contact me. But my business is sponsoring the podcast. So that is what, how I'm making it work. So Alliance Creative sponsors the podcast, which I should say out more often. ⁓ But I don't, but yeah.
Brilliant. Yeah, so that's what it does for me. It does for me that I'm helping people. ⁓ I've always, I suppose ⁓ my brown values that I want to help, I always feel like ⁓ one of my brown values is being kind. ⁓ Brilliant. Yeah.
Peju Abuchi (00:44:00)
And you know when you s talked about the lady who said she couldn't find any podcasts with black ⁓ black led podcasts about design or creativity and you ⁓ are on season three, so you've spoken to quite a number of black and brown creatives. Where are we? Where are we? Where are we working? Where are we creating? And how are we able to become more of a collective voice as creatives?
Angela Lyons (00:44:09)
Yeah.
Angela Lyons (00:44:31)
I mean, that was one of reasons why we started Creatives Like Us and this event. ⁓
So it's not 100 % no more. ⁓ So when we said no more, it was more so the way that we delivered it. ⁓ So like the workshop styles, I'm actually thinking, I actually wanted to, I don't think I'm going to, what's that again? I wanted to do something over the summer and summer's not over yet. So it might happen still, it might be late summer or I might bring it for Black History Month where I was thinking of getting creators like us together as a, not as a workshop style, but more of a.
come together collaboratively over dinner and our conversations over supper. ⁓ So it'd be a small group and then maybe do a creative task within that supper environment. ⁓ So yeah, I just thinking so, but then again, us too, ⁓ as you know, that event space that we had, ⁓ they're so supportive. I mean, the guy, Paolo, he was so brilliant. He still emails me says, are you coming back? He loved our group. ⁓ And
I've said not at the moment, ⁓ you know, if he, I mean, if he's offering, maybe we could do something there again. ⁓ It's a lovely event in an event space in Shoreditch and us two are great. Again, thank you us two for helping us and sponsoring the venue for us and giving us that space. ⁓ But yeah, it's not 100 % over. ⁓ And I also do some work with, ⁓ well, I'm going to see anyway, ⁓ but I'll see. Fingers crossed, I might ask a sponsor to help us. ⁓ Because I have got
Peju Abuchi (00:45:37)
⁓ Exactly.
Angela Lyons (00:46:00)
I can tap into a sponsor at the moment who might be able to help us. ⁓ So we'll see. We'll see. ⁓ Yeah. ⁓ Yeah. ⁓ Yeah. It's great because I'm can tell you, I might as I said, I've been doing the podcast because it'd be great because I can apply for it, but it's Adobe. ⁓ So they are sponsoring creatives because I'm ambassador now. ⁓ They sponsor gatherings and get together. So I can actually apply for it. So if I applied for it. Yeah. So, but I just, yeah.
I'm just putting it out there. So I put the call out. There you go. I've said it. ⁓ If anyone wants to come and help me put it together, that will be amazing. We can put a program together. That'd be amazing. So there you go. ⁓ You've turned the tables on me. I've asked my ask. ⁓ I think that's another thing we forget to ask ⁓ if we need help. And there we go. I've put it out there. And you've done that. Thank you, Paisley. You're welcome. ⁓ So maybe next quarter, you'll see Crateys Cast come back as an event. ⁓
Peju Abuchi (00:46:59)
Was a lovely thing, I remember that. With that lovely ⁓ key note speaker, but necessarily
Angela Lyons (00:47:04)
Vanessa, yeah, ⁓ yeah, she came back and helped us, became part of our team too, so she's amazing and still, ⁓ you know, she's become a friend. can't, you know, so yeah. ⁓ That's what I mean, this is, ⁓ you see what we created. It's just good to see.
Peju Abuchi (00:47:21)
You think you're going to an event and then you meet people who become friends.
Angela Lyons (00:47:25)
Yeah, exactly. Actual friends that, know, text you and check in on you, like Vanessa checked in on me, I checked in on me, like we check on each other. It's just, you know, it's great. ⁓
Peju Abuchi (00:47:35)
But it it then becomes a platform that becomes community and people are thirsty.
Angela Lyons (00:47:41)
Their first day community, yeah, 100%. And that's the same with creators like us when they said it was over. And ⁓ I think I should apologize for ending it abruptly like that. We should have ⁓ done it softly ⁓ because ⁓ people are just like, wow, what's going on? Like, there's nothing bad going on. was just like, ⁓ it takes a lot of time to organize events. ⁓ So maybe in a different way, ⁓ as I said, we'll bring it back. all is not lost. All is not lost. ⁓
Peju Abuchi (00:48:04)
Super is not lost.
Angela Lyons (00:48:08)
So let's get back to you, Peja, because we're going to round up. Thank you so much so far for all your insights. ⁓ I always like to end on a quickfire question, quickfire five, I call it. ⁓ It's one or the other. So, crisps or chocolates? Beech or forest?
Peju Abuchi (00:48:22)
Crisps.
Forest.
Angela Lyons (00:48:26)
Book or Kindle? A reggae or soul?
Peju Abuchi (00:48:28)
⁓
Soul.
Angela Lyons (00:48:33)
to your sandwich.
Peju Abuchi (00:48:35)
See. ⁓
Angela Lyons (00:48:36)
Yes, thank you very much. That was a very quick ⁓ five answers. Thank you so much for that. ⁓ So, Paisa, Paisa, tell people ⁓ how they can find you and how they can connect with you. And also, if they're interested in your book to buy it, where can they buy it? And I'll put all the links in the show notes, but it'd great if you can tell us. Super.
Peju Abuchi (00:48:53)
Would love to connect with you. You can find my book on my website, which is pejuthespark.co.uk. ⁓ You can also find it on Amazon. It's right there, also. You can connect with me on LinkedIn. I am Peju the spark ⁓ and on Instagram. I am a slightly different name. I am powerful poetic presence. And I'm on YouTube as well.
Angela Lyons (00:49:19)
for a day.
Wow, you're everywhere. ⁓ Amazing, amazing. Thank you so much, Pedro, for joining me today. It's been such a lovely conversation. I love the poetry too. And I hope ⁓ you've inspired people to start journaling on starting their own poems and, you know, just getting their thoughts out on paper. You never know where that leads you.
Peju Abuchi (00:49:40)
Yes, it's all about wellness. Poetry, I've discovered, is not just poetry, it's healing. And I really take that seriously. Poets are type of healers that are needed in society. You have doctors, you have physios, you have ⁓ counselors. Poets and creatives also bring a sense of healing ⁓ back into society. So explore them, give them time and space, give them your ears, give them your hearts. They bring so much good.
Angela Lyons (00:50:08)
Yeah.
Peju Abuchi (00:50:09)
Thank you for this time. It's been lovely to chat and good to be on creatives like us.
Angela Lyons (00:50:14)
Thank you so much, Major. Have a brilliant day.
Peju Abuchi (00:50:17)
Two bye bye.
Angela Lyons (00:50:22)
Thanks for listening to Creatives Like Us. If this conversation resonated with you, share it with someone who needs to hear it today. ⁓ That's how we build our communities and amplify our voices. ⁓ You can find all the show notes and the links at linescreative.co.uk podcast and connect with me on LinkedIn and Instagram. I'd love to see you there. ⁓ Also, make my day if you can leave a review or comment in your listening platform choice. ⁓ And it's really easy in Spotify. Leave it in the comments. ⁓ Until next time, ⁓ keep creating and keep supporting creatives like us.
See you next time, bye.
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