Creatives Like Us Podcast - Ep:43
Episode 43 of the podcast Creatives Like Us hosted by Angela Lyons – with guest Kerry Herbert
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Cooking up a Creative Future: From Scientist to Baking Educator
What happens when a pharmaceutical scientist of 20 years decides to swap the laboratory for mixing bowls?
In this episode, Angela Lyons is speaking with Kerry Herbert, founder of My Baking Classroom, who turned her childhood love of baking into a business that now teaches more than 100 children every week.
Kerry combines baking, creativity and education to make learning more engaging and accessible, including resources for children with SEND. She also helps home-educating families turn everyday learning into something a little less boring and a lot more delicious.
We talk about making a career change, rediscovering a creative passion, building a business around what you love and the impact that creativity can have on children.
It takes a village!
Connect and follow Kerry:
Instagram & Facebook:@mybakingclassroom
@centrepiececakesbykerry
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Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Kerry and her background
02:06 Kerry's career as a pharmaceutical scientist
03:55Discovering a passion for cake decorating
05:59Transitioning from corporate job to baking business
07:52Starting to work with schools and children
10:02Adapting to COVID-19 with online classes
11:57Impact of baking on children's learning and confidence
14:09Creating educational content around history and science
16:03The importance of creativity and process in children
18:09Mentors and community support in Kerry’s journey
19:50Future projects: digital resources and memberships
21:51Balancing social media marketing and business growth
24:04Working with special needs children and inclusive education
25:59Networking strategies and community building
28:07Advice for aspiring entrepreneurs and creatives
29:56Final thoughts and personal advice
Transcript
Angela (00:04.184)
Hello and welcome to Creatives Like Us, a podcast where we open up conversations about what it really means to build a creative career when you're black or brown. I'm your host, Brandon Marketing Graphic Designer Angela Lyons. In my guest episodes, I sit down with creatives who are out there doing the work, navigating the industries, and proving that there's space for all of us. Because the more we share, the more we see our stories out there, and the more we see ourselves reflected, and the more we realise we're not alone in this.
Okay then, are you ready? Let's dive in to today's episode.
Angela (00:41.324)
Here we are and welcome to Creatives Like Us. And today I'm joined by a very special guest. Her name is Carrie. And Kerry, can you tell people where you are in the world and what type of creative are you?
Kerry (00:52.088)
So yeah, I'm Kerry, I'm Kerry Herbert, and I'm based in North London. And I am a baking educator for children, really around the age of four to eleven. So I go into schools and I provide baking lessons for children that is aligned with whatever they're learning about in their everyday school work. And I just go in and make sure they have a good time and it's a way to
make them feel enthusiastic about learning, a bit of a break from the normal sitting down at their desk and, you know, learning stuff off the blackboard to cover a whole variety of topics. And yeah, so that's what we do. I try and just make it fun and engaging for them.
Angela (01:36.622)
I love it. Because I said I know I said all my guests are special, but I also sort of know Carrie and I know that she has her her past has led her to where she is now and I love that. That I think that's really special. And could you tell us a little bit about your past and what you were in your previous life?
Kerry (01:50.894)
Yeah, sure. So I actually didn't intend to ever end up doing what I am doing. When people used to say to me, No, you should you should work your children, you should bake with children. I have to be honest, it seemed like it just wasn't on my radar. It actually seemed like it would be a nightmare. Because let's face it, kids kids are all over the place. They're messy, they're chaotic. And I thought, I j I don't know if I've got the patience for that. And so I
originally started like my career working as a pharmaceutical scientist. So I worked for a global pharmaceutical company. I did that for about 20 years. And somewhere through that twenty year period, I just started baking. Baking was something that well I say start, it was more that I returned to it because I'd always loved baking with my grandmothers, my mum as a child growing up.
And that kind of tailed off when I went to university because you know, uni life just kind of got in the way.
Angela (02:54.082)
You haven't got time to bake cakes. Exactly. Or bake anything.
Kerry (02:56.722)
Too busy got too busy going out. So I just kind of after I got married and had my own house, I thought, you know, I'm gonna try and do this again. I'm gonna try and give it a go and also I had my own space to mess up because if I had tried that at home with my parents and my mum, it would have like, Why are you creating all this mess in into chaos? I would have been that chaotic child. Yeah. So when I had my own home, I just started baking again.
Angela (03:16.44)
Yeah.
Kerry (03:24.396)
And then after it was actually whilst I was looking for my own wedding tape, I saw how amazing some of these cape designs were. And I was I was I was just sucked into it or I would just spend hours looking through magazines. No internet back then, that's how far how
Yes, the paper the the paper versions. There was no like YouTube. I remember none of that. I remember having to I was looking I was joined to many forums and it was just like literally all text or one one picture and just looking at that and just trying to, you know, wonder and try and decipher how they had created all of these amazing works of art. So after I got married, I enrolled on a
Angela (03:51.992)
No Pinterest. No Pinterest.
Kerry (04:15.18)
a cake decorating class at my local college. I did like six months work of of castness there. And then I just started doing it for myself. I started like baking more cakes, decorating more cakes. And I remember the lady who asked me to make the first wedding tape I ever made. And I actually remember kind of going onto this forum. It was a desktop computer which was dial-up broad
broadbands, I was like, my kitchen was over here, my computer was in the living room and I was running back and forth from the kitchen to the computer so I could see what the next part of what I had to do was run it past.
Angela (04:45.535)
Yeah.
Angela (04:54.286)
So you say that so the instructions and everything were on the computer, you had to like basically follow it.
Kerry (04:59.72)
Exactly. And it was relying on people who had gone through the same process that I was trying to
Angela (05:06.904)
Suppose the knowledge, she was trying to gain their knowledge and it was all unlike I see what you mean. Exactly.
Kerry (05:10.862)
Ask the question on there and then follow it step by step. But I was having to run back and run trying to retain the the information in my mind and then run back into the kitchen.
Angela (05:17.73)
From kitchen.
Angela (05:23.577)
that's so funny. Just thinking about that, that's quite good that the people are willing to share. Yeah, yeah.
Kerry (05:28.93)
I do I do find that the Cape the Cape community is is amazing. Everyone I've ever met has been really helpful, really nice, even to this day. There's no I've never come across people who want to gate people the information. Yeah, always winning to share. It's a it's a lovely community. So I I did that, started decorating more tapes, started getting more orders, and it kind of just grew from there to the point where I was in my nine to five at
pharmaceutical company I'm still a scientist working in R D and I just thought I wonder if this is something that I can do for a living and I was just to think no I can't do that. Rating case isn't gonna pay me money that I'm gonna be able to live live by. And then s as I started to get more and more orders, I started to kind of calculate what I would need to
Angela (05:59.404)
Scientist. Yeah.
Kerry (06:23.606)
achieve in terms of organs that would equate to enough money that I could live on. And I have to say it took me a long time from the point of having those first thoughts to actually ended up at a point where it was my job, it was my full time job. If but it was only in 2017 that I quit my job and I decided I'm gonna give this a go because I didn't want to always think what if. So I thought
Angela (06:52.494)
Yeah.
Kerry (06:53.098)
Yeah. So I thought I'll just I'll just give it a go. So in two thousand seventy, I quit my job and it was actually I remember sitting at work and my bosses said, We've got a meeting, we all need you to come into the meeting room and I said to myself, This could be redundant thing. I could I could I could walk away with this with like a little yesterday in case it doesn't pan out. So we went into this meeting room and it was actually the opposite. They were saying
We're bringing in these another layer of of kind of management and everyone in this room is eligible to apply for this new line this new line within the company. And I just sat there and I thought to myself, I'm not gonna apply. And then I thought, wow, if I don't apply, that means I have to leave because
Angela (07:45.228)
You have to go, Yeah, you've already made up your mind, haven't you? Yeah. So
Kerry (07:49.334)
Because I because I was all I almost had to say to my boss, I'm not applying. They wanted to know why. Because like, what well, why aren't you applying? And I just said, I'm not applying because I'm gonna be moving. And it was it was a really difficult decision to make because I absolutely loved my job. I mean, it had it had changed and evolved over the decades that I was there. But I just thought to myself, I can't sit here. Every time I sat down to work, I'd be thinking about, you know.
how do how do I do that in cake? I've got this cable. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was I just thought I felt like I wasn't giving all of myself to either thing that I I had. So I thought I have to give this a go. And I had to like say to my bosses, I'm not gonna buy because actually I'm gonna I I think I'm gonna resign. So I did that in twenty seventeen got my garage converted into a Cape studio and then
Did that for a couple of years because in 2019, at the end of 2019, that's when I sort of started putting the scenas out there for schools. Because I I would I felt personally like I was missing something. And it was using the side of my brain that I had been using within the pharmaceutical industry. I'd entered into this world of creativity. And I have to say, I'd never considered myself to be creative throughout my whole academic life. I'd kind of done the
traditional academic subjects, you know I A levels, maths, physics, chemistry. I went to uni and I did chemistry at uni and I just didn't think I could cut it as a tape design.
Angela (09:31.648)
Yeah. Yeah.
Kerry (09:33.644)
And I I I felt that I was missing it. So I I remember I had a particular problem that I was trying to work out with a case that I had. And I thought to myself, there's a maths formula for that. And I thought, I can use that. I thought, see, MAFs is useful because so many people just say, why are we learning formula and algebra? We're never gonna need that in the real world. And then I actually had to use it and I thought to myself, This should be something really great to
show kids the the tangible use of subjects like maths and science through baking. So that's when I had the idea to kind of work with with kids. And but even then that was I mean that's like 10 years over 10 years ago now. And even then I just felt no I'll put that to the back burner. But then in tw at the end of 2019,
I was kind of doing these taste sessions for schools and then obviously COVID happened. So
Angela (10:37.582)
Yeah. Yeah. Put a stop for it for a bit.
Kerry (10:40.692)
Exactly. So all of my K courses that I had lined up, they all vanished within a month or so. And then I thought I could maybe try and do some stuff online. And I just put the feelers out there and then I worked with I worked with various companies who wanted to do team building exercises for their for their members who were like all over the country. And so we did a few of those. And I did Yes, I did I did
Angela (11:06.52)
Co
Kerry (11:09.914)
I would like ship out these boxes of like cake decorating baking ingredients and cake decorating materials and then I'd host kind of a tutor live tutorial for that company over Zoom. And we did that. They did that with all their their their employees. I did kids' parties, I did charity celebrations. This was this was all remotely. Me trying to figure out
Angela (11:33.23)
And it's all still remotely.
Kerry (11:38.104)
How to set up two cameras and all that kind of stuff. So COVID made us really think outside the box, I think. So yeah. And then after that, the school that I had delivered some taster sessions to, they said they wanted me to come back in. And I've been there with that with that school. I've been there for almost six six years now. Going back every week, teaching different year groups. So within one day, I probably
Angela (11:58.876)
wow. Yeah. That's fantastic.
Kerry (12:07.864)
bake with round about a hundred students in one day. wow in groups of in groups of three and then they're after school baking the club which I need as well. I they're so enthusiastic. It's reached a point now where I kind of walk down the corridor and they're like, miss, miss, missing, he's baking today, who's baking today. And I'm like, it's it's not your year group. You were last week. There's not a
Angela (12:19.416)
They love it.
Angela (12:34.636)
So
Kerry (12:36.888)
They they read into another and they they remember it as well. They remember they retain so much more information. Like I've done like baking clubs in other schools and I'll tell them one thing in the next week they'll come back and they're like, I was telling my mum about this particular thing and I was like, what do you mean? She goes, well my mum put this in the oven and I was telling her about Ubby Spring. And I was like, Really? It's just like they just going home and sharing the information.
Angela (13:02.166)
Showing their knowledge. Yeah. that's great. That shows that they're enthusiastic 'cause especially kids, like there's so many things that could take away their their attention and to like have something that's quite, you know, hands on and also and you're bringing the science and the maths and then the nutritional side of things and Yeah. That's really cool. That's really good. I remember seeing someone on T V once again, just come back to kids and like not them not understanding how things were made, but you're showing things how how they're made. Like I think I think I saw
T V clip once, it was half a news like some a a reporter asked the kid where apples come from or how are apples made. It was like says berries or something like that, other supermarkets are available. But they believed that they just appeared on the shelves. It was like they didn't understand the process of the seeds and the growing and the watering and you know, the whole science behind it. So it's good with the cooking, you know, they're understanding that you've got to get all these things together. It's not just a ready meal.
Kerry (13:56.166)
Exactly. And I've had that exact same conversation with some of the kids because the lessons are designed in such a way that I go in, we we do the baking and then there's always a little bit of sounds behind my butt it might be why while we're waiting for something to rise or whilst it's in the oven. So the lesson that I then deliver to them is say for example if they're learning about the Egyptians who bake something related to that.
But then I'll deliver a a lesson about the Egyptians. So I have to kind of go back to school myself because before the lesson, I have to do my research on on whatever they're learning and then structure it in a way that can be delivered to them that's in line with the national curriculum. And I often ask them, you know, questions like, So where do we get wheat from? And then we'll get to put a flower. Where do we get, you know, where do we where does flour come from? And they'll say, Liddle.
other supermarkets available and I'd be like, Yeah, but how how does it get too little? What what's the process? Do we know? So it is a way of teaching them, like you said, how things get from their starting point to ending up on their plate. And it makes them more aware about things that go in into what they're eating as well. And because they're enthusiastic about, you know, baking it, cooking it or whatever.
Angela (15:15.267)
Yeah.
Kerry (15:20.726)
they're also more likely to try stuff as well. There's so many children who will say, I don't like this or I don't eat that and they've never actually tried it. And Yeah, and and and then they'll smell it cooking and they'll smell it baking and they're like, Well actually I might try that 'cause it smells really nice. So yeah.
Angela (15:30.934)
Try to yeah.
Angela (15:40.415)
wow. Wow. Do you ever bring like I know it's all creative too, them them creating things. Is there any creativity? Are they allowed to do anything fun, create anything different or is it all
Kerry (15:50.702)
Well, they are because we do one of the recent lessons I did, it was actually a a after school bathing club and it was we were just doing biscuits. But one of the things about the creativity of biscuits is that more often than not, the creativity happens after the biscuits are baked. So you know if you're icing them, you're decorating them and we don't really have the time to wait for those to cool down and then wait to decorate them. So I thought, what if we decorated them before they went in the oven?
Angela (16:14.03)
Yeah.
Kerry (16:20.876)
So we, you know, we we added food colour into some of the dough and they cut out their shapes and then before they went in the oven, they I said, right, here you go. Here's your your your dough, here's the colours you've chosen, decorate it how you want. And I was so impressed with some of shapes that they'd used to put out, like a seashell. one of the children made it look like a like a huge banner that was behind someone. She did a little person in the middle of it. So
it's always really interesting to see how their minds work and because I would never have thought of that. I I read a a a study or a report recently that said adults are ninety percent less creative. We we are ninety percent less creative than we were as children.
Angela (16:59.171)
Yeah.
Angela (17:11.676)
I contr I a hundred percent agree with that. I agree with that. 'Cause yeah. I suppose well, I suppose one is time to be creative. And also, you know, we're worrying about how we're gonna do XYZ and then also our brain is thinking about XYZ or or we just don't have yeah, I just think it's you have to make the time, don't you? Yeah. And you've got no inhibitions as a kid, so you just go for it. You just think
Kerry (17:33.538)
We're as adults we're very concerned about the end result. Whereas I think children are more invested in the process. They're not bothered about what it looks like. Not that they're not bothered, they're proud of whatever the end result is. Whereas we're like, I could have done this different. I think we start ripping things to pieces. So it's really it's really
Angela (17:54.926)
We start doubting ourselves and then we start doing this and then start thinking about, I could have done this but kids are like, just go for it and just don't go.
Kerry (18:01.779)
And they're like, yeah, and I can eat it anyway, so if it's not great, I'll just eat it.
Angela (18:05.678)
Exactly, they're not gonna remove that. I always ask about the catalysts connection. Is there anyone or I know you mentioned like you were at work and you just thought I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna you worked out how much money you could make to leave your career. Is there anyone involved along the way that just said go for it or anyone who's inspired you to say I know you said you've got community of cake makers, is there anyone in particular that you wanna either tell us about or give us an insight on how it happened?
Kerry (18:35.776)
Yeah, so whilst I was on because a as I said, it took me a long time to reach that decision to actually leave. And I was actually on maternity leave with my second child when I started to think, Yeah, I am gonna I am gonna leave, but I kept putting it off, putting it off. And I used to listen to one lady, she's she was a what she is, a business coach and she had a podcast and she had this whole black catalogue of
podcasts that she was she's made and it was all about kind of you know setting up a business, promoting your business, social media, all of that stuff. And I used to binge those podcasts. So by the time I was ready to leave, I kind of had all of her, not all of her knowledge, but I had a lot of information already in my head. that's not to say that it wasn't difficult or it was it w it
it just came naturally to me to do it because I always think that s doing something like setting up your own business is so much harder than you actually envision you know, you think it that it will be. and o going from like a corporate environment where you've got people to call and if your computer breaks down, you've got IT department to call on you.
Angela (19:45.32)
Yeah, yeah.
Angela (19:55.758)
Marketing, you've got finance, you've got an accountant.
Kerry (19:58.422)
Exactly. And so there was all of those things that you kind of have to factor in as well. So there's definitely that lady who I still kind of work with in the sense that I still purchase her products, I still follow her information. She is, I guess, kind of in the mainstay of my business business journey. as I
Angela (20:22.016)
Mentor. Yeah. Like a mentor from afar. Yeah. Do you show her name and who she is?
Kerry (20:26.678)
Yeah, so her name is Claire Mitchell and she runs a business called the Girls Moon Business and now she kind of focuses a lot more on digital products and memberships and recurring income and all of that kind of stuff. And she she is amazing. And I had an opportunity, I think again it was whilst I was on maternity leave where she because she's based somewhere up north.
But she did like a strat strategy workshop close to London. And I went to that then I had the opportunity to meet her in in person. So that was that was really nice to meet her. So yeah, she's she's always been there along the journey that I've taken. And then I would have to say the other person that I kind of thank for kind of really getting me to have faith in the
fact that I could work with children and I could work with large groups of children is the lady who she's actually works in finance or she works in the finance department of the school that I first started with and still work with. And the funny thing is is that I had never she works in finance, so she's not she wasn't a teacher at the school or anything. And
When I I kind of had this idea about turning some of what I had into digital products. Again, one thing about me is that I'm a procrastinator. So I've had that idea. Why can you do that? Shoot up. I mean, this podcast, me coming on here.
Angela (22:05.812)
We've been I've been asking Kerry for about I think since I started it last year. That point too. We're in July twenty twenty sixth. I think I asked her like a few months into Jenny Sprint twenty five. But you said yes. You eventually came round and like you, you know you you said yes. So it's like there's nothing wrong sometimes in not the procrastination side of things, but having a think about it and seeing if it's right for you and like and also being in the right space. Like today when you first came around, are you nervous? And you like, No I was like, okay
So it's it's all good. It's all good.
Kerry (22:36.152)
Yeah, so I had this kind of idea of having some kind of digital product for my business which looked very different to what I'm working towards right now. And to kind of promote that version of what it was back then, I was doing some live tutorials, I had a Facebook group and I was like doing webinars and things to kind of
promote that. And then all of a sudden out of the blue, I got this call from this lady who was in finance at the school. And she said, I've I've seen you on socials. I don't know who she is. I never she never had a comment on any of my social posts or anything like that. And she said, I've seen you on socials and you know it it really spoke to what they're trying to achieve in the school.
And she wondered if I would go in and just have a meeting with them and see if I could help them maybe put and put on a taster lesson for some of their children. So, as you know, as I said, I like to procrastinate. But so I was really nervous because it had to be quite soon. There was there was not. So I was like, Yeah, yeah, of course I'll I'll come along and I'll do it and I thought
Angela (23:48.918)
No time for procrastination there.
Kerry (23:56.044)
you know, this isn't gonna come of anything, 'cause just I'm just gonna go give this taste a less lesson. It's probably not gonna be to them and then that'll be the end of it. And literally within that meeting afterwards, they just said, Would you like to come in like once a week and do this? And, you know, they had very lucky that they had like a food tech room, you know, they've got all the equipment available, ovens, everything. So it wasn't like me trying to that
space or anything, it is designed for that.
Angela (24:27.18)
Yeah. Amazing. Perfect situation.
Kerry (24:30.976)
Yeah, so that was kind of the the the start of where I am today, where I'm kind of working with three schools, one of those schools, they've got a hybrid special needs and mainstream and they have a specific autism unit. So I now work them creating a curriculum that is designed for their autistic students who obviously
because of their their their challenges, they can't follow the typical national curriculum. So they asked me if I would create something for them, I did that. And yes, just just to it's things like, you know, for example, are they comfortable touching the ingredients? Are they starting to follow instructions? Are they repeating back things to you? So very it's specifically
Angela (25:27.736)
Silas, yeah, it's silence then, yeah.
Kerry (25:29.358)
Yeah. So now I work with that school and deliver lessons to their mainstream children and their S E N D children as well. And it's just it's lovely to see how children can be brought out of the shell and and interact in a school you know, in school life through other means. So one particular
So now such a case was a child recently who likes to vape, but he didn't want to take part in the vaping lessons for his group. he's a little bit older than the rest of the children who are in that unit. And he he just wanted to be amongst his his peers. And then his group left and he asked me if he could stay behind and help with anything. So I checked with the teachers and they said, Yeah, that's fine.
And he just helped me bake some other stuff that I had left over ingredients. And he was just communicating, we were having a great conversation. He was telling me that he likes to bake, you know, we were making, who we'd never made it before. And then the next week I said, So yeah, no, so how so how was that? He's going, Yeah, miss, can we make make that again? I said, I don't think we get we can because you're just you're year six, you're gonna be leaving, you're gonna be going on
Angela (26:51.02)
yeah, if it's
Kerry (26:52.19)
Yeah. So you're not gonna be here next academic year when I when I come back. And he kind of like looks as if to say, yeah, that's true.
Angela (27:01.08)
bless, he was so looking forward to it. He didn't even realise I know. But you might have been inspired to them. Yeah. Something they can continue. bless. that's so sweet. So you mentioned you're creating programs. Actually, let me I'm gonna take it back because like she said that she found you on social media. Do you find how do you find marketing your business? Because obviously you've moved from like making cakes like for like, for example, birthday cakes and wedding cakes and people finding you through family and friends and maybe online too.
Is there something in social media where y are you are are you enjoying it? I mean I I mean obviously I I stalk you on social media. I don't stalk you in a horrible way, but I like the carriage has popped up again. And it's I find it really cool the way you explain things and like, are you enjoying that process? Can you tell people a bit about it?
Kerry (27:46.818)
Have a love-hate relationship with social media. It's one of those those jobs that I kind of was referring to previously, where when you work for a large company, you have a whole department who can who can deal with that. And my issue on social media is the consistency of it. I would need it would need to be my full-time job for me to be as consistent doing it as I would like it to be. So when I
when I've got downtime, right, I'm gonna be consistent, I'm gonna like batch create all these posts, I'm gonna get them out there. And I'll probably do that for like a week, two weeks. I actually did do it for a month once and I was like still part of myself. Posted every day for a single month. But then life takes over. So and I think social media has definitely changed since I when I first signed up so I didn't know what I was doing. And at that
point it was my celebration cake business and I found it a lot easier to handle social media with that because it's just pretty pictures of cakes are just either to like put up a picture of a cake or put up a picture of me, decorate video of me, decorating cake. That was easy. Now I'm kind of trying to reach a different audience. It's been more of a struggle because I have to the whole point of you know, you have to
let people see who you are, let them learn to l know you, like you and trust you. I'm such an introvert that I find that is really difficult. Yes, I can I can bake and take pictures of those and put those up on videos of that, but people need to see the persona behind the business and that's the piece that that I find quite difficult. but over the years it has become easier
But I still know that I've got such a long way long way to go.
Angela (29:46.744)
Find the more you do it it becomes more easier. Yeah.
Kerry (29:49.46)
But for me because it's the consistency because you know, I I'll be like I'll do it for a week and it's like, yeah, that's getting easier and then I'm like just for a week and I'm like back to square square one again. So it's
Angela (30:00.744)
I get that. I think it's one of those things like I suppose muscle power too, like brain power too. Like muscle, if you don't use it, it wastes away. Like it's a shame. Same with like posts on social media. I mean, I get it too to most of you. It's like you can leave it for a little bit, you're like, god, I've got get back into it again. And it's just but I was gonna say, I do love your social media and I love your educational posts. I love when you share things and like how things will go right, how they go wrong or what you can do and you have a you have you do have a and because I know you, I know your personality comes across
in the poster and it's I think I think you're doing amazing site. Just
Kerry (30:34.624)
And that that's one of the things I've struggled with as well, because I I often think, Am I being authentic on social media? Because my the the people I'm trying to reach specifically are like home educating mums. So with the with where I'm taking my business, that's the kind of audience that I'm trying to to reach. So so that home educating moms can replicate what I offer in schools in their home.
But easily, without stress, without messing, all of that stuff. And because I'm not a home educated mum, because you know, I don't have children who have got S E and D challenges, imposter syndrome creeps in. I'm like, Am I being authentic? And then I was yeah, I was speaking to a another coach who's also a friend of mine and she just said that you work with so many children
Angela (31:31.822)
That's what I was about to say. I was about to say.
Kerry (31:34.208)
A whole range of additional needs. Whereas as a parent, you're only really ever with your child, your children, and that might be the only lens through which you view the challenges that they face. So yeah, it's it's it's still I'm still trying to get to to g
Angela (31:53.524)
your head around that. I'd say you're at an advantage to be honest with you because like what your the coach said, your friends, you know so many children, so many different backgrounds and so you know, ish you know, diverse challenges they're facing that you can bring that all in your content too and share that. So it will I think it's so weird 'cause I don't see that at all. So you need to come out of that. Yeah.
Kerry (32:19.042)
We always view ourselves differently to what others view us as well. Another interesting thing that she said was she doesn't actually believe in all the foster syndrome. She believes that it's just a case of when we are almost moving to the next level, stepping out of our comfort zone. And I I can see that through each stage of of my journey, every time I've had to try something new, I've kind of compared myself or wondered about whether I
Angela (32:22.995)
Sure, sure, sure.
Angela (32:30.166)
Yeah.
Kerry (32:48.942)
can do that. And, you know, you know, as Nelson Mandela said, it's always impossible until it's done. I'm paraphrasing, but you know.
Angela (32:57.964)
Yeah, no, no, it's it's true. It's true though. I think and also I was again, I know a lot of a lot of men don't have imposter syndrome, and I think it's one of those th I was listening to Joe Wicks at a talk that was at and he's and somebody asked me about imposter syndrome, he's like, I don't have imposter syndrome. Might sound arrogant. I don't have that imposter syndrome because I know I worked hard for what I've got and you've worked hard for what you've got. So I know but I I do get it also. I do get it also. But every time I think about things like I'm thinking if I've imposter syndrome, I think about
Kerry (33:19.469)
Yeah.
Angela (33:26.456)
Sadly. Or maybe good thing. Joe Wix, I think I've worked hard for what I've got. So Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Kerry (33:34.23)
Maybe it's also viewed differently. Yeah. Maybe if a woman had said that statement, would that have been viewed differently?
Angela (33:42.476)
Yeah, 'cause when a man says it you think, god, they're just arrogant. Yes. so you mentioned a few future projects it sounds like, and you mentioned the digital projects. Is there anything what's what's in the what's in the future? What's what what what plans have you got?
Kerry (33:45.698)
Yeah.
Kerry (33:57.1)
Yes, I have got a couple of I've got well, I've got more than a couple of free digital resources, but I'm in the process or on the journey of making my digital platform bigger. And I have got one digital like activity pack which is themed around it's kind of like a mystery. So as parents they can
Do this mystery with their children and it includes science experiments, it includes baking. And by working their way through the pack, at the end of it, they have to say, You've done it, based on all of the MMOs that they've gathered, all of the clues, evidence, and everything else that they've gathered throughout the rest of the pack. So that's one that so there's activity packs, and I'm now working on my membership, which will be.
Almost like a monthly version of that to different activity packs themed around different things. So whether it's, you know, what we grow, the garden and what we grow, it's it is literally just taking what I've learned from teaching children face to face and in the classroom where all of their lessons have to be themed around a topic and building an activity pack around that. So it is more than just
recipes because a lot of people would say, Well, you know, recipes I can go and get them off of YouTube. Well this is this is more this is a whole activity pack. You have to there's cruise, there's silence, there's, you know, breakdowns of the baking.
Angela (35:33.844)
So is that base for home educators h for parents? Is that what's or schools?
Kerry (35:39.722)
mums are home educating. schools can use it as an activity pack as well because they could activity pack and then do that with their with their classes. One that I did back in October, I created one for Black History Month, which was all around like Black History and the different baits from various parts of the world, but with the history of some of the
Angela (35:46.461)
No interesting.
Kerry (36:08.87)
you know, some well known faces from Black History as well as some lesser known faces of Black History, so a little bit about them, why they inspire us, why they motivate us with the recipes that are kind of associated with those particular particular countries. So yes, a lot so different more activity packs are coming, and we've also got a free resource which will be coming shortly, which is
Angela (36:25.901)
Yeah.
Kerry (36:38.11)
really for children who have S E N D so it's more about sensory dough. So because what I quickly learnt was that some of them love to explore with by tasting. And obviously if you're baking, it's not always safe for them to do that. You've got raw eggs, you've got raw flour, which shouldn't really be eaten in that way. So I've created a series of different doughs that they can play with.
Angela (36:51.02)
Yeah.
Kerry (37:06.978)
They can if they taste it, it's completely fine. You can vape it if you want to, but that isn't the focus of the pack. It's more around touching, feeling, smelling. They're all scenes around different things. So maybe the garden, maybe, you know, a beach holiday. They're all kind of scenes around different things. All around life, yeah.
Angela (37:26.776)
Yeah. Yeah. So it sounds like you're not doing so much stuff from what I take it, it's more not so much the celebration cakes anymore as you're going all in on the education side of things. Yeah. You come full circle from like from the beginning when you said I should go to education or someone said to you, You should go to education. no. But now you've taken all of what you've learned over the years.
Kerry (37:50.508)
Having said that, I did have a wedding cake to do for last Sunday. and yeah, which was it it made me think, not it was horrendous, not because I hate mating cakes, but because it was so hot.
Angela (38:05.645)
we're in a heat wave at the moment. Yeah, it's hot. Yeah.
Kerry (38:08.032)
I had to battle with the the literally battle with the elements to try and keep these tents cool to try and get them to the venue and set them up to the
Angela (38:17.634)
my god, that must have been a hot wedding. Yeah.
Kerry (38:19.726)
It it and I I love the hot weather, but ever since I became a cake maker, I've been like I I just want it to be like ten degrees cooler on the cool
Angela (38:28.31)
All right, yeah, yeah, yeah. my gosh, I suppose having lots of fans everywhere might not be a good thing or a bad thing. Well
Kerry (38:34.222)
I have to keep turning them off 'cause you start weighing stuff out and it just starts flying everywhere. Yeah. So yeah, I do I do capes every now and then.
Angela (38:44.898)
So you still do every now and again. So if so someone listening to this might say, a fancy cake, then make contact you and then at the before we leave we'll get all your contact details. Yeah. Is there anything you'd like to ask me or talk about that you want to bring up? But I haven't asked you yet so far or we haven't discussed.
Kerry (39:01.238)
just one of the things that I just wanted to talk about was networking. You know where I'm going.
Angela (39:06.766)
Let's go for it.
Kerry (39:08.994)
Because you've hosted some amazing networking events and they were they were amazing. And I all I also see you, you're really prolific in your networking. So I just wanted how you fit that all in with obviously doing your role, because I as a business owner I know I need to do more networking. And as there's no longer Creative Slack Plus networking.
Angela (39:35.15)
Well, there might be, there might be, we might bring it back, we might bring it back. Well, I've been talking about it actually the last few weeks to some people. So it's not over yet. Or it might come back in a different format. so but it's still be networking but in a different format. I would look forward to that. Yeah. I know that's another thing 'cause I was really sad when we kinda ended quite abruptly and I think also a few people come up to me after and said they like, you know, see what's happened to continue.
So just if you're a new listener here, let's just let you know that Creatives Like Us was set up myself and Aya, Abbas and Vanessa below. She was a speaker, the first one, and then she joined us and became also a co founder with us. And we hosted for Black Brown Creatives in London, an a venue called Us Two. And yeah, it was a really amazing workshop and networking event. And what I loved about it, some people have come and said they'd never been to networking event before. And some people also said I've never been to an all black.
Brown network event before and they felt very comfortable, very safe. And and some people s have asked me afterwards, including white people said, Why have you done that? And I was just like, Because of that, because we know that it's a safe space to talk about what we need to talk about. But in general, networking, I will go I w I about to say anywhere and everywhere, but you can't do that 'cause you burn yourself out. But I'm very I've become more specific in where I wanna go or where I want to be seen. And there are some events where I won't even share online because
It looks like I'm just going out all the time. And I'm really not. so your question was, how do I fit it all in? Yeah.
Kerry (41:09.006)
Because you're you're you're busy.
Angela (41:10.966)
Yeah, busy, but I also I got my diary, I know what work's coming in and I also know that I won't like last week, I think I was out nearly every day, but that was because I had an Adobe event, I had another thing that I wanted to go to and it's funny because I owe my friend one of the time I up careers like us, where she what she always comes back to with me is says, Are you in the room where you need to be? Are you in the right room? I can go to
I could look on Eventbrite right now and go to a gazillion events, but I've got to go to but you you find that out as you go along too. I like going to some networking events because I know that there's gonna be community there and I might need a bit of community. But I also go to some networking events where I just want my face to be seen and people to know about my business and then they might not get business there and then, but you know, you need to be top of mind and contact them again afterwards on or LinkedIn or if you connect with them. so how do I fit it all in?
I try not to do try not to do more than one a week. and even then I would tr if I do that, I will try and have the the following week free. But it depends on times and what's coming up. For example, Thursday this week, I've been invited to three networking events. my gosh. and a part of me just thinks, I'm actually not gonna go to any of them. Yeah, also it's just
Kerry (42:30.124)
Probably shouldn't.
Angela (42:34.52)
I need preserve my energy because I have got work to do. Got work to do. And also I've got to market my business. And yeah, networking is a part of the is a part of the marketing. But some of those networking events, are they the place where I need to be, I wanna be? So you've got to think about that. Are they the right rooms that you wanna be in? But also think differently about your networking. Don't think like say say for example you you're a cake maker and you you're not gonna go to events that are full of cake makers, the next event you might go to is
Is there a teachers event in Ells Court or something like that? Is there anything where teachers might or schools might be exhibiting? Private schools? Contacting private schools? It might be a place where not saying you go to open days 'cause that's a bit weird if you did that, but is there a place where But you know what I mean? Is there a place where they advertise their schools like there'll be an open day for for private schools in where there's lots of different private schools and then you go and could that could be a place where you can get in. Do you see what I mean? You've got to think about differently. Yeah.
Kerry (43:31.278)
I think y that's that's very true. I think for me it would be if there are conferences or anything like that events that are around home education, because I think for me I'm quickly reaching like you mentioned there about capacity, what work you've got coming up. So now I have it it was one of my goals last year to have three schools on the on the books by the end of last year, which was achieved this year.
Angela (43:58.84)
Well done.
Kerry (43:59.732)
And and I d I've found now that I really don't have the capacity to do have any more schools on the books. So that's one of the drivers for me wanting to kind of create this digital product suite because I can't I can't be in all these places at the same time. And it's yeah, it's a lot. It's very draining. Some of the school well, one the one of the schools is quite far away and it just takes a lot.
Angela (44:28.428)
Day out, isn't it? It's a lot of energy.
Kerry (44:30.444)
And these first thing in the morning and I don't come back until like seven o'clock in the evening.
Angela (44:36.334)
So then exactly what you said, that so you've had a product that's can give you passive income where you've got some form of online support too or telephone support if that's what you give. And that's another way to bring income in. But then to get that product out to people, yeah, you put it on your website, you do a good SEO, but you've still got you know how people people wanna buy from people, they wanna see you, they wanna meet you. So those kind of events that you can start going to where there's you know, even council run events, you know, local councils.
There's lots of different you just gotta think a little bit differently of where to go and where to be seen. And as I said, don't go to the the same same same places. I go sometimes because I want that community and I want or if I want to learn something, I might go to an event for small businesses. Like Small Business Britain at the moment is really good. I don't know if you've been involved with them. And they have a lot of online courses, but then even networking online is a quite a good thing 'cause like people go, yeah, I do know someone who makes, you know, is doing sites and baking in schools and
I work in a school where I know my my kids' school might need that, you know, all that sort of thing. So it's one of those always be listening and always be marketing and always be thinking about the wrongs that you should be in. So there am I Yeah. Do as I say. Not as I didn't No, but I am I have got loads better actually. And that's because I speak to pe good people around me and you know, I and Vanessa and yourself even, you know, I know you've invited invited me to some networking events before, so Yes.
Kerry (46:03.756)
Yeah, it's just and it it's it's so funny 'cause the networking events that I one particular that I used to go to regularly is once a month, but that had to that wound down as well. So but that was an o that was a local one. So, you know, one a month locally, I didn't mind that that level of commitment and
Angela (46:24.94)
Yeah, I say if you can get about two in a month, that's that's a decent amount, if you can. One a month, you know, it's good it's good too. So if you can get at least two networking events in a month, that'd be good. And Eventbrite is a brilliant place for that too. So just do so.
Kerry (46:38.264)
Never yeah, I've never really gone on to Eventbrite as kind of like for research. It's only when people have sent me things that I've known about, yeah.
Angela (46:48.78)
Yeah. Yeah. I've used it recently from for for networking and I've it's a good place. There's there's a lot of people advertise. I mean there's some rubbish but yeah, I found it was quite very useful actually. yeah. So try it, check it out. Yeah, I think people forget about it 'cause I just get sent a link and s to sign up, but it's a good place to network. It's got a good SEO, so this should if you put your right keywords in, find out. So yes, and also listen out for creators like us. I will let you know. Yes. hopefully if we come back.
Later on in the year. So I always like to end on a personal question and that is what would you tell your teenage self?
Kerry (47:26.914)
think my message to my teenage staff would be to care less about other people's opinions because I think I've not or I've taken longer to do a lot of things because I thought, well what would that pe person think of me? Even now I like it's like what you said do to do do as I say, not as I do. Because even now I'll be thinking, I want to put that on social media and and then I'll be thinking
But what if that person who I went to school with like twenty-five years ago sees that's like so? I don't I don't know them anymore. I'm not that I'm not expected to remain the same person that I was twenty-five years ago. So I say twenty-five years ago, I wasn't at school twenty-five years. A lot more than twenty-five years.
Angela (48:13.006)
I wouldn't have said anything current.
Kerry (48:16.854)
But yes, it definitely kept you know and I don't mean in a horrible way. I mean still people's feelings and all of that stuff, but not at the detriment of your own progression and your own happiness, I think. So that would be definitely wrong. 'Cause I was I was so shy, I think, when I was when I was a child and and up until my teenage years. so yeah, definitely.
Angela (48:43.874)
Nice. Yeah, that's nice. So the quick fine five questions, one or the other. Crispy chocolate.
Kerry (48:51.278)
Chris.
Angela (48:52.45)
Beach and Forest?
Kerry (48:54.594)
Thanks.
Angela (48:56.13)
Book of Kindle.
Regular so.
I think I know the answer to this right.
Kerry (49:04.27)
The sandwich doesn't even come close.
Angela (49:11.544)
Maybe I should have asked you a fav what's your favourite cake? What's your favourite cake?
Kerry (49:15.038)
so for me it's like anything with chocolate and like dark chocolate and cherry. So that's one of my favourites, but also a really good lemon cake. Really good like le lemon curding there. I love lemon flavours. But then you know, I really like apple as well, like apple and cinnamon.
Angela (49:34.51)
Do you know what? I believe like we could do a trailer or it'd just go off and like you when they fade out and like the carabies still say, but I actually like I actually like vanilla sponge. I like like cherry and I like I like
Kerry (49:43.732)
So black porridge. I like banoffee. Yeah, chocolate orange as well. Mint chocolate. I love mint chocolate. Yeah.
Angela (49:49.902)
Yeah. I think so you like all of them. I like all of them.
Kerry (49:54.126)
But vanilla for me is literally vanilla. It's like, yeah.
Angela (49:58.668)
Yeah. It needs it needs something else, didn't it? Like some chocolate or jam or
Kerry (50:01.806)
Does now a passion fruit picture sponge now was
Angela (50:07.336)
Nice. Nice. I don't think I've ever had that. Sounds good. Carrie, thank you so much for joining me. Before we leave, could you tell people where they can find you? Websites, socials, and when your digital products are coming, if they come well before I release the episode, I'll if you send me those links, I'll send them. Or if you've got them now, let's share.
Kerry (50:28.814)
Yeah, so on socials and Instagram, my kind of educational baking resources, that's at my baking classroom. And that's the same on Facebook. And then for my tapes that I make my bespoke my bespoke cake creations, that's at Centre Peace Capes by Kerry, and my website for my digital resources. So there's free stuff on there as well. So there's lots of guides and
Angela (50:57.684)
Mm. Nice tasters. Nice tasters. See what I did there.
Kerry (51:02.318)
That's my baking classroom dot com, so
Angela (51:05.428)
brilliant, brilliant, brilliant. So I'll put all the links in the show notes anyway. And you'll send them to me. Of course you will. Of course you will. Brilliant. thank you so so much for joining me and creators like us. And I'm hearing about your journey and like from scientist to baker to educator. Amazing. So thank you so much. It's been
Kerry (51:08.852)
And I'll send them to you as well.
Kerry (51:17.251)
Love it.
Kerry (51:25.135)
Thank you so much.
Angela (51:30.574)
Thanks for listening to Creatives Like Us. If this conversation resonated with you, share it with someone who needs to hear it today. That's how we build our communities and amplify our voices. You can find all the show notes and the links at linescreative.co.uk podcast and connect with me on LinkedIn and Instagram. I'd love to see you there. Also, make my day if you can leave a review or comment in your listening platform choice. And it's really easy in Spotify. Leave it in the comments. Until next time, keep creating and keep supporting creatives like us.
See you next time. Bye.
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