Creatives Like Us Podcast - Ep:36
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Building a Playful Illustration Style with Ashwin Chacko
In this episode Angela is joined by Ashwin Chacko, also known as Wacko Chacko – a positively playful, award-winning illustrator, author and motivational speaker based in Belfast, Northern Ireland.
Ashwin shares the journey from drawing as a five-year-old in India to building a full-time illustration career in Ireland, and everything in between — advertising, art direction, freelance pivots and a very intentional leap of faith in 2019.
Ashwin opens up about his path from graphic designer and art director to full-time illustrator, and the moment in 2020 that gave him the clarity to define his purpose and develop the signature style he's known for today. He also shares the story behind his brand new publishing house Bad Book Press and their debut picture book Moon Moon Can't Sleep, as well as why he started The Fruitful Life podcast and what he hopes listeners take away from it. He's honest about 2025 being one of the toughest financial years of his career and what kept him moving forward — and he closes with the advice he'd give his teenage self.
Find Ashwin at:
You can find is work here: www.whackochacko.com
Or follow him on social media www.instagram.com/whackochacko
Twitter: @whackochacko
Youtube: @ashwinchacko
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Transcript
Angela (00:04.162)
Hello and welcome to Creatives Like Us, a podcast where we open up conversations about what it really means to build a creative career when you're black or brown. I'm your host, brand and marketing graphic designer, Angela Lyons. In my guest episodes, I sit down with creatives who are out there doing the work, navigating the industries and proving that there's space for all of us. Because the more we share, the more we see our stories out there and the more we see ourselves reflected and the more we realize we're not alone in this.
Okay then, are you ready? Let's dive in to today's episode.
Angela (00:41.038)
Hello and welcome to Creatives Like Us and today I'm joined with Ashwin. Ashwin can you tell people where you are in the world and what type of creative are you?
Ashwin (00:48.536)
Hello, everybody. I am based in Belfast in Northern Ireland at the moment, and I am a positively playful award-winning illustrator and author and motivational speaker.
Angela (01:01.996)
I love that tagline. That's brilliant, Ashwin. I love the fact that you've got it all nailed down into one block. Because I think a lot of people struggle with that and I love that you've got that nailed down. So what is your creative project right now? What are you working on right now?
Ashwin (01:16.13)
I am working on a couple of different things because I'm a Trolos book author. I'm always working on new manuscripts for books. So I've got a couple of books in the process where I'm writing it out and then it's going to go out to my agent and who's then going to take it out to the publisher. I also recently launched a publishing house here in Northern Ireland. So right now we're in the process of
almost completing our first book, which is called Moon Moon Can't Sleep. And the name of the publishing house is Bad Book Press. So these are the two big projects I'm working on. Outside of that, there's commercial work that is always on the go. Sometimes you can't really talk about it because it's client stuff until it goes live.
Angela (02:08.494)
So I have two questions. one of the first one is the books that you're working on, they're obviously your books or they also, I know you said you're working for clients, but the ones that you're publishing yourself or your publisher. Is that right?
Ashwin (02:22.202)
As a publisher, I'm publishing other creatives books. we're primarily only focused on picture books. it is the aim of Bad Book Press was really to create a space for author illustrators to really explore playful ideas. A lot of the times with the publishing, traditional publishing houses, a lot of their really interesting ideas can get lost in market expectations as it were. And so
then what happens is a really fun, playful idea can get cut down, cut down, cut down, until it's not recognizable by the author who had this great idea. And so we wanted to create a space within the market where we could have some of those slightly misfit ideas. And so our tagline is misfit ideas playfully crafted.
Angela (03:14.759)
Nice, nice. Who are you doing that with? Is that a team of you?
Ashwin (03:18.094)
Yes. My co-founder is Clive McFarland. He's also a children's book author and illustrator, as well as a buddy of ours who is a marketing genius whose name is Charles Pitorius.
Angela (03:32.49)
So you've got a good team there. someone that can actually work together and then someone to actually market it to. Because that's obviously, as you said, really important. You've got to it out there and tell people about it. that's brilliant. well, when's the first book out?
Ashwin (03:45.299)
It's in the fifth of March, 2026.
Angela (03:48.654)
That might be perfect timing then. Brilliant. It's like we planned it.
Ashwin (03:51.468)
You
Ashwin (03:56.174)
So look out for the buck!
Angela (03:59.374)
Yes, yes. will look out, you know what, as soon as it comes out, I will tag it onto the show notes and then people have another bit of marketing for you there. So that'd be amazing. definitely. A hundred percent do that for you. So I'd love to know. Also listeners always when they're listening, love to know how people got started, especially as the podcast about encouraging people. And maybe some people might want to change a career path or there might be graduates listening that thinking, oh, I really want to be an illustrator. So can you tell people how you got started in the illustration world?
and your artist world.
Ashwin (04:30.286)
Well, as far back as I can remember, I've always drawn. My mother retells the story of me at the age of five or six, asking her if I could draw for a living. At the time, growing up in India, it seemed like an impossibility. But with a lot of time and pursuit, I eventually got there. So once I graduated from high school, I studied visual communications at a college in Chennai, which is in the south of India.
After the first year, they were going to just do theory stuff. And I was like, I'm not, I'm never going to get a job if we're just studying theory. So I looked for another course and there was a brand new animation and multimedia course in India at the time. And so I opted to switch colleges and study animation and multimedia. The end of that.
I realized I never want to do animation as an animator. I really want to do like the storytelling aspect and the character design, but I didn't want to be an animator per se. So then I was looking for work. I had done comic books and stuff like that as a part of my dissertation at the end of uni, but I didn't really.
I was doing a lot of small freelance gigs, but my career really kicked off once I got my first job in advertising, like a couple of years after I graduated from college, where I worked as a graphic designer initially, and then built my way up to art director. And this was all in India until about 2015 when me and a buddy started our own design studio called Custom Clay.
Unfortunately, the year after we started it, the opportunity came up, well, fortunately and unfortunately, the opportunity came up for me and my wife to move back to Ireland because my wife is from Ireland and she wanted to be closer to her family and we had just had our second kid. So I ended up moving. We did a little bit of it across countries, but it was really hard to like.
Ashwin (06:52.376)
get your clients and everything sorted across two different continents at the time anyway. So I joined as an art director in Dublin where I was working in advertisement again for a year or rather six months.
in which time I was able to slowly start building up my network in Dublin before I switched to freelance. And I freelanced for a couple of years until 2019 when I finally realized that I could really do illustration as a full-time job here in Ireland. And I was doing it in bits and bobs the whole way along, but in 2019 I was like, okay, I'm going to make a conscious decision that I'm not going to take any more graphic design jobs on.
I'm going to take that leap of faith and just do illustration. So I made that decision in 2019 and I haven't looked back since then.
Angela (07:54.414)
Was it scary making that decision? Because that's a massive decision. Obviously, you've got your wife and your family and realizing that you've got to, I suppose, fulfill your dream. But was it bit nerve-racking, scary? Or did you just go for it?
Ashwin (08:06.518)
I think for me, I'd come to the point at that stage where I was like, well, what's the worst that could happen? Worst is I go back to graphic designing and I don't lose anything, right? If anything, I would gain this whole new world and opportunity. And so that's sort of the angle I took, but I had to give myself the time to see if I would succeed within this realm. And I think that's really important to not give.
give in to the temptation to go back where you were before you give it the opportunity for it to grow into something. And so because I made that conscious decision, revamped my website, was very intentional about how I communicated to my clients and the existing network saying, you know, my focus is this, here's what I can bring to the table, et cetera. That meant it gave me that much more
potential to succeed as an illustrator, if you know what I mean.
Angela (09:10.542)
I love it. Yeah, I do know you, that's fantastic. And I was going to ask about your illustration style because it's very distinctive and it's very vibrant and it's very playful and very colorful. Did you develop that throughout so many years or did you wake up one morning and say, I've got an idea of how I want something to look, I want this to look like this. Obviously I'm going to link everything to, I'll show people your style in the show notes. But I just want to say, actually, you know what I've actually got, I can't move it around. I've actually got one of your prints on my wall.
Oh, from being freelance. It's the keep at it. I might actually take a photograph. I might put it on when I advertise the podcast. But yeah, it's such a great, colorful, playful style. And I love the use of words in there and the graphics. And they also tie in with the whatever you're illustrating. I love all that. So is that a style that you developed straight away or was it a few years, few months of development?
Ashwin (10:02.51)
Well, I think style is the bridge between who you are and what you want to say. And it's your communication method. And it took me a long time to get to that place. I think it really catalyzed in 2020 when the world paused and I had spent all this time pursuing the idea of becoming an illustrator, but I had not thought about, once I become an illustrator, what do I want to do? What sort of impact do I want to have with this medium?
And so in 2020, when the world paused, had that moment to really have a moment to really introspect and dig deep and ask myself some hard questions like why I want to do this, what sort of impact. And that process of digging deeper allowed me to hone into my core purpose, which was to bring joy and encouragement in whatever I do and the core areas that I wanted to focus my illustration around.
So number one was commercial illustration, which was what I was already doing, but that's what keeps the bills and keeps everything going. second was children's books. Because I had kids of my own, it was something I'd always been fascinated with. I've always loved stories, so that was a world that I wanted to tap into. And so that was the second choice. And the third was to be a motivational speaker. So then the combination of these three
overarching goals within my purpose allowed me to then hone in my style as it were, because the style was then the extension of, okay, I want to say these things. How do I say them? And so it was a mix between
Colors that I love that are bright and playful and joyful. a mix of like Indian inspiration where I grew up, where it was quite a colorful place. The methods, traditional techniques. So I had been doing a lot of screen printing in the last few years prior to this. And so my style had evolved from that as well, moving from a lot of like intense detail and line work to more blocky shapes. and
Ashwin (12:21.144)
that plus the color combination plus the purposeful messaging all came together as my style. is recognizable today.
Angela (12:34.668)
Yeah, I love it. don't think I've, it's yours. It definitely is your style. It's very unique. And I don't think I've not seen it anywhere else. And I don't think if someone copied it, I'd like, that's Ashwin's style. It's very unique. I love it. And I will definitely show people what it looks like in the end show notes. And I'll link out to your website. Is there anyone that inspires you creatively out there at the moment or in your past? One of the questions I like to also ask people is there a catalyst connection where someone's actually said to you,
you should do this because, and then it totally changes your career path. Is there anyone like that or is there anyone creatively that you look up to?
Ashwin (13:12.064)
I had two fantastic mentors as I were. They might not be conscious mentors, but they were for me as a young kid growing up in India. So the first was Joshua John. Joshua John is a painter, biker, really cool guy. He's 10 years older than me. And he was a family friend. so I was what, like in middle school, he was graduating and he was going to become a painter.
And he rode motorbikes and all this cool stuff. And so for me, as a young kid in India, seeing that, was like, okay, it is possible. know, he, if he can do it, so can I. And they were family friends. was also an encouragement for my parents, right? They were not opposed to it, of course, but it meant that there was an example out there.
Angela (14:04.681)
I suppose the traditional, I know my parents like, you know, they expect you to be either be one thing or another like a doctor or lawyer or teacher or something like that, especially if you've worked so hard at school. And the arts sometimes gets kind of like an arts, you want to be an artist, why do you want to be an artist? But it's glad, I'm glad that your parents are very accepting. That's cool.
Ashwin (14:25.142)
I was very fortunate that way. I have lots of friends who were not so fortunate and made the switch a lot later in life. But for me, my parents very much encouraged my gift and I don't think I would be in the position I am if it wasn't for their encouragement. But the second person that was a huge influence on me was a friend that I met again in my first year of college.
Angela (14:43.054)
the slap line.
Ashwin (14:55.308)
He was older, his name was Jonathan, and he was an illustrator. He was the first real illustrator that I had met in India who was doing that full time. And he gave me a couple of freelance gigs. He got me started as a freelancer in my first year as a college student, and that really helped me develop my freelance career as it were.
I wasn't like, I have to work with a company, you know, I could work on my own. And again, that encouragement, he taught me lots of different things, systems that he was using and, know, just watching what he did played a big role in that. those two acted as mentors for me in my life.
Angela (15:48.494)
That's brilliant. It's nice that they came at the right time. It sounds like they were the right place, the right time to actually help you and encourage you. That's brilliant. Is there anyone creatively that you look towards now that helps you? is it that you do, I suppose your publishing team would help you?
Ashwin (16:07.054)
Well, I think I take inspiration from all around me. You know, there's so many contemporary illustrators that I think are amazing, like Steve Simpson, Steve Harrington, Andrew McLean. And then you have people like Keith Herring, whose work is really playful and fun. And then there's photography and yeah, so I
try not to take all my inspiration just from the one medium, which is illustration, because then you can get very insular. So I like to look at commercial illustrators, children's book illustrators, photographers, painters, and it's a combination of everything around you and nature that really inspires the work that I do now.
Angela (16:55.886)
It's interesting, I've just gotten recently, I know it's not the same because it's logo design, but I just got a book by Alan Peters and he draws his inspiration for anything and anything around him. Like it could be a bottle top somewhere or it could be a bit of architecture, you know, we forget to look up don't we sometimes. So just a bit of architecture catches your eye and you think, oh I can weave that in somewhere. So inspiration is, you're right, it's everywhere really isn't it? Yeah. What is a future project for you? What is something that you'd absolutely love? It sounds like you're doing what you love already, but is there anything you absolutely love?
because I call this the manifest stage and like, is there anything that you would love to bring into being?
Ashwin (17:31.884)
At the moment, I am working on a graphic novel idea and I would love that to be a big thing that goes out in the world that a publisher takes it on and that it gets the coverage that it deserves. I think graphic novels are really interesting and fun and playful art. They are the combination of beautiful visuals and
extremely deep storytelling. So I think it's very underrated and I'm really happy to see that the current publishing world is finally taking notice that it is a really good medium.
Angela (18:09.144)
Yeah, yeah, I've noticed a few popping up.
Ashwin (18:11.678)
Yeah. So I'm excited about this and I think there's lots of opportunity in it and I'm hoping that I can make that opportunity a reality for myself.
Angela (18:23.022)
Brilliant. And everyone else was to enjoy it. Would it be in the same style as what your illustrations are in at the moment or have you changed the style up for the graphic novels?
Ashwin (18:35.054)
Similar because again, I think I'm going to aim at a younger audience, probably like eight to 10 years old, at least initially. Those are the stories I want to tell. Creating books kind of for my kids at the age they're at right now. And I think that obviously will continue to evolve as I get older. Obviously there are deeper stories, but I think at the moment my focus is really in the children's picture book world.
Angela (19:03.067)
Yeah, you've got great market researchers at home, haven't you?
Ashwin (19:07.15)
Yeah, exactly. They are my first editors.
Angela (19:13.806)
harsh or they love everything that you do actually.
Ashwin (19:17.358)
I wish they were harsher, yeah. Sometimes you have to like read between the lines and kind of like the unsaid things. You're like, I'm watching for their expressions, I'm watching for how engaged they are in the storytelling process and what gets a laugh and what doesn't get a laugh and all those kinds of things and, you know, taking that learning.
Angela (19:20.363)
You
Angela (19:41.27)
So you have a podcast, Ashwin. I'd love to know more about it and tell us what the name of it is and who you interview on there.
Ashwin (19:49.678)
Yeah, so my podcast is called The Fruitful Life, and it's really an exploration on how creators have turned their passion into a business. And the focus is on visual creators, so mainly illustrators, some graphic designers, but a lot of them are usually illustrator and graphic designers, if you know what I mean. So yeah, so there's pretty
nice list, I think a curated list of, of guests that I've had on, including James Martin.
Angela (20:27.502)
was on a podcast with him last week, funny enough. Yeah, yeah, he was so funny. He was very funny, very brilliant, very clever and very sweary.
Ashwin (20:29.806)
Yeah, he's brilliant.
Ashwin (20:40.084)
That's it.
Angela (20:42.86)
think he held it down a little bit. But yeah, he's pretty good.
Ashwin (20:47.79)
Yeah, him. Tad Carpenter from the Carpenter Corrective. There's Jim Fields, is a fantastic Charlene's Book Illustrator. Benji Davis, again, Charlene's Book Illustrator. Zach O'Hara and Fiona Woodcock. So these are just some of the ones, and Mikey, please. So these are from season two. Season one has a mix of creative directors, book designers, and lots of illustrators and designers. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, brilliant.
Angela (21:17.322)
in. So is there a reason why you actually started it? Because I know it's obviously great starting a podcast, but is it something that is another creative outlet for you? is it to get your voice out there? Is there a reason for it? is it just what's the reason?
Ashwin (21:30.51)
I started the Friful Life as a way to connect with other creators. You know, I'm always fascinated with people's stories and I think social media, as lovely as it is with connecting people, it sometimes can give the wrong impression of where you are in your journey. So a lot of people can look at where you are today and assume that you're on overnight success, whereas they don't see that
this is just the tip of the iceberg. You're only seeing the tiny bit that is finally poked out of the water. And there's been 10 years, 20 years of hard work before things became successful overnight as it were. And so I think the podcast really allows for those deeper conversations where we can dig in and learn the backstory behind that creator.
find out that they had the same struggles as you. They all faced imposter syndrome. They've all dealt with failure and how they've dealt with those. And I think the core of this is really so that we can all walk away feeling that as creators often we're working in isolation, we're alone. So the podcast really is an encouragement that, we're not alone. Even the great creators that you follow on social media have gone through the same things that you're going through.
And that's sort of an encouragement that we can do it to.
Angela (23:03.534)
Yeah, how is work with you? it? know this year and 2025 has been a bit tough for designers and a lot of people.
Ashwin (23:10.798)
It's definitely been one of the worst financial years as far as my business goes. The summer was the driest summer I've ever had. think I had like no work in July at all. Wow. August as well. it was a very dry summer, very little work, but September it's all kicked off again and things have come back in. And I suppose that's the thing with freelance. It's kind of be in these cycles.
But it is a tougher year. And it's not just me, it's a lot of people that I've chatted to on my podcast as well have admitted that it's been hard. it's, I think, like you said, a mix of so many factors. There's this new technology, AI technology, that might play a small role. But I think it's the larger market in general, you know, with wars on the horizon and...
a lot of political stuff happening. Markets are fluctuating so much that companies are not taking risks. Anytime there's a slightly turbulent situation, the first thing that's got is the marketing budget.
Angela (24:25.682)
Yeah, yeah. Which is the most weirdest thing. still don't get that, yeah, I just don't get that. Especially, why would you cut marketing when you need to tell people who you are still what you do?
Ashwin (24:35.918)
Exactly. As far as a pivot, I suppose the publishing house is a slight pivot in one sense, but I think it's something that I've always been interested in. And I think there's opportunity and that's probably why I decided to start it. I think in the long term, it means that I don't have to be dependent on other publishers necessarily. If I can build this publishing house up.
with my co-founders. I think there's so much potential for us to create our own work within it as well and create lots of opportunities for creators as the house grows.
Angela (25:19.502)
That's brilliant. That's a great opportunity for illustrators and artists and creators because it is hard in the publishing world, isn't it? I always feel like you need to know somebody or get in somewhere. But it's tough. So it's great that you're doing that. So well done, Well done. It's brilliant. Thank you. I'll keep an eye on that for that. What question would you give your teenage self from, say, from you as 16 years old, what would you tell yourself?
Ashwin (25:36.089)
Hahaha
Ashwin (25:48.27)
Your value is in who you are, not what you do. And that's sort of the thing that I would tell my teenage self because I think it was really tough when I became a graphic designer. As an artist at heart, know, every time you do something, every time you create work, any criticism of it feels like a criticism of yourself because I felt like my identity was interlocked.
intertwined with this artwork that I had created. And I had to learn to separate my identity from what I did and understand that I have intrinsic value before I even pick up my pencil to do any drawing. And I think having your identity anchored in something unshakable. And so for me, that was in my faith in Christ. So that was my unshakable identity. That meant
that I could grow as a creative because now I was willing to take on criticism. was willing to listen to another opinion because it's about the art. It's not about me. And yes, I had a part in developing it, but I am, my identity is secure. I know that I have that value. I think so, so that would be sort of the statement that I would tell my younger self to not to worry.
be focused to build your identity, that foundation of your identity first, the work will come, the art will come, your work will develop as you grow.
Angela (27:25.058)
That's amazing. That's wonderful. I also love that you've, I'm a Christian too. And I love that fact that you actually had that faith that you knew that it was going to be okay because you have your faith that you believe in Christ and it will, whatever happens, he's got you.
Ashwin (27:40.91)
I think that's basically been the foundation of my whole career, especially after 2020, where, you know, we talked about the purpose. like that purpose came because I took the time to meditate and ask God, know, like, what do want to do with my life? And that is what then unlocked the whole journey for me. And I think being a freelancer, think without faith, it's very hard to be a freelancer in our current world.
And with the ups and downs, but I know that God has a purpose and plan and it's a good purpose and plan for me. And there's going to be these dips and curves, but he's got me. And I think that keeps me motivated when I hit these storms, when I hit these dry patches where I can't really go forward on my own in my own strength, but he carries me in the palm of his hand and that peace.
that you can't get from anywhere else is surrounding me. so because of that, I know that I can move forward in this world knowing that he's taken care of that. And he has looked ahead and he has made these plans and I can just walk towards them.
Angela (29:01.497)
That's lovely. Brilliant. I love it. Oh, you filled me. Thank you. Because sometimes you don't really just like, tell you, obviously it's not, not going air this, but my son's just gone off to uni and I've just gone into his room and I've tidied it up a little bit. And I was just like, oh gosh, you really got to help me with this one. Because the buyer's not called me yet. But anyway, I just thought, and then I just heard a voice say, I know, can you imagine? It's called all his friends.
But I just heard a voice say to me, he's going into adulthood. He's fine. He's alive. He's fine. He's doing well. So I was like, you know what? Okay, Lord. I you. So yeah, yeah, it's one of those. Anyway, so thank you. You've really, what you said really helped me too. So I appreciate that. So I normally answer my guests, quick fire, fun five questions and it's one or the other. So you just got to answer one or the other. So, crisps or chocolates?
Ashwin (29:55.918)
chocolates.
Angela (29:57.272)
Beach or forest?
Ashwin (29:59.192)
Forest.
Angela (30:00.972)
Book or Kindle?
Right, K-O-So.
Ashwin (30:05.87)
So
Angela (30:08.494)
Patty or a sandwich? You're very calm, I like that. Thank you so much Ashmeet. Can you tell people where they can find you and how they can connect with you?
Ashwin (30:10.712)
sandwich.
Ashwin (30:21.472)
Yeah, you can find me on my website www.wacochaco.com or on all social media as WACOCHACO. So W-H-A-C-K-O-C-H-A-C-K-O.
Angela (30:34.264)
Brilliant, thank you so much. Actually, I did ask you, where did the name Wacko come from? Wacko Jacko?
Ashwin (30:38.986)
So when I was in, so Chaco is my last name in case that hasn't caught on. But in high school, I went to an international boarding school and in 10th grade, I got to go on exchange to Australia. And I'd grown up in the nineties. And so, everybody was into hip hop and, you know, dressing like a gangster or whatever. And so even though.
I had no real experience of it. I used to dress like hip hop. had my head shaved. I stole my dad's t-shirt, tied the bandana so I looked like Tupac. And this was sort of like the bubble I grew up in in this international boarding school where we're all like dressed like that. And so even though I was rock and rolled, I dressed gangster. And it was only in
10th grade or 11th grade when I got to go on exchange to Australia, I realized, you know, like I can keep allowing people to define who I am by what they say, or I can choose to write my own chapter. And that trip really opened up the world to me because I was finally outside of this like international school bubble. And I realized, you know, like, people don't really care, you have to define your own.
path and build your own passion. I came back wearing all these quirky things that I loved. I've always loved hats, so I had got a couple of hats, waistcoats, and odd combinations. I started being called Wacko Chacko because my clothes were wacko. I was like, this is cool. After the quote, I was to go with business name. was like, yeah, that's a good definition.
for who I am, you know.
Angela (32:34.83)
I love that you kept it ever since. Thank you so much for joining me Ashwin. I've had a great time chatting to you and can't wait to see what we're doing in the publishing house. So just wish you all the best and thank you so much.
Ashwin (32:51.534)
Thanks so much for having me.
Angela (32:57.102)
Thanks for listening to Creatives Like Us. If this conversation resonated with you, share it with someone who needs to hear it today. That's how we build our communities and amplify our voices. You can find all the show notes and the links at linescreative.co.uk podcast and connect with me on LinkedIn and Instagram. I'd love to see you there. Also, make my day if you can leave a review or comment in your listening platform choice. And it's really easy in Spotify. Leave it in the comments. Until next time, keep creating and keep supporting creatives like us.
See you next time, bye.
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